Switching (Shunting) Activity

[tbundy1982]

Wow Harold, it sounds like you are really having a tough go of it with OR. I have the occasional unresolved issue with OR, but overall it runs pretty good for me. I think what I keep in mind when using OR is that it is a beta and not a finished product. I suppose you could go back to the old standard until OR can run to your satisfaction.

Sorry you are frustrated with the performance. I could say more but this is not the place to offend.

Tyler

[hminky]

Wow Harold, it sounds like you are really having a tough go of it with OR. I have the occasional unresolved issue with OR, but overall it runs pretty good for me. I think what I keep in mind when using OR is that it is a beta and not a finished product. I suppose you could go back to the old standard until OR can run to your satisfaction.

Sorry you are frustrated with the performance. I could say more but this is not the place to offend.

Tyler

I guess OpenRails has offically become a full time train-sim:

To paraphrase the line in "Fight Club".

"The first rule of (insert train-sim name) is you don't discuss (insert train-sim name).

Pie in the sky! MSTS runs well enough. Like I said I was just hoping for a better front end for MSTS. I run it on a 28" at 1600x1200 so the graphics aren't that bad. Just the interface is clunky.

Harold

[tbundy1982]

The first rule of train sim discussion, most importantly with problems and help requests, is to keep it as objective as possible.

The first rule of posting in any respectable forum, such as this, is to not post when you are frustrated or angry. I understand your frustration, as does most of the community, when things just aren't working out. Unfortunately, when a post has anger, contempt, or frustration behind it, most of us can read that between the lines (or right in the print...). The concern may be sincere, and the problem may be completely legit, but in many cases the poster ends up looking like an a$$hole and destroys the willingness of others to cooperate.

I thankfully had the foresight to cancel a long post I had written in the past that would have likely pissed off many in this community. An short time later I was able to re-write something that had a much more positive spin and was rewarded by the gracious help from some of the true wizards around here.

Again, I'm really sorry you're having this kind of trouble with OR. As the above posts will show, the issues are not universal and that makes things infinitely harder to correct. I too have had trouble with switches snapping back after throwing them, but I just dismiss it as an unproven software that has enough to offer in other areas to suit my fancy. I tried running the L&HR Shuttle 1 the other day but as soon as I backed into the yard to pick up my train, OR thought I had gone off path and set all the signals against me. After several tries and a subsequent test with MSTS, I realized that OR signal logic doesn't allow for that kind of action in the same way as MSTS. Bummer. I also deleted every forest region on the Canton route yesterday because of the way OR reads and places the trees in a forest. That is a month-long project of re-foresting the Canton route just because I didn't like driving through trees. I can't necessarily blame the OR team, though, because I don't know how to fix that either. They are doing the best they can, and I think that we should all appreciate that and just see what happens. I for one will likely never go back to MSTS because I like switching moves in OR.

Now THAT's subjective... Good luck Harold, and I hope that subsequent releases by the OR team will improve performance for your installation.

Tyler

[OTTODAD]

I am not quite sure what a "Switching Activity" is supposed to do.

I, like Jim Ward, am a Freestyle Activity user, using a short Player path and all switches in the activity having been set to MANUAL by the SwitchlistGenerator program, can then program AIs to run it on tracks not likely to be used by the player train and have it do whatever switching I want it to do anywhere in the route !

O t t o

[baldwin]

Otto, do your freestyle activities work in OR with no switch problems?

[tbundy1982]

Otto, I agree that the open ended activities are usually the least frustrating to troubleshoot. I try to use that method whenever possible. Routes that are built with a CTC signal and switch scheme make this much more difficult. I rebuilt and relaid much of Canton and the East Metro to facilitate easier open ended activities (and more realistic track layouts), but this is out of the reach of most average MSTS users. I do like the OR ability to manually control AI trains. I think if the MSTS AI was just a little more intelligent, OR may have never started... Truth is, most AI, unless programmed to the gills, is not that smart, and activity creators really need to literally outsmart the game itself. Seems to me like that may be what you, Otto, and Jim Ward have been trying to do for years, and I'm grateful for your work.

I wish we could take the best qualities of all of the train sims and build a really good one, something that satisfies the wants of the many groups of simmers here. It would likely end up short of all of our wildest dreams as well. Short of a time machine, multiverse, and a strong back, this is the best we can get. Actually working on the railroad is not a walk in the park, which is why most of us are just modelers...

Tyler

[OTTODAD]

Here is Jim Ward's Port Ogden-11 Anderson Day Freestyle activity running in MSTS. Masses of AIs running and loose consists everywhere for the player to pick up and then drop off elsewhere and all switches being MANUAL there is no problem using them:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/port-ogden-msts.wmv
Alt-Enter to view Full Screen.

However trying to run it in ORTS below is it's response.

Have also reported to ORTS BUGS that some loose consists in one of my MSTS Gold-Spike-X route's Freestyle activities have disappeared in ORTS.

Can anybody tell me a MSTS default route's default activity which has as switch problems in ORTS so that I can convert all it's switches to MANUAL, give it a short Freestyle player path and try to G or ALT-mouse-click throw switches ahead of the player ?

Yes, I wish somebody could use the best of MSTS, TRAINZ, BVE and RAILWORKS and create a Super-Duper Train Simulator !

O t t o

[OTTODAD]

So I used the USA1 Summer Express activity, shortened it's Player path and changed all it's automatic switches to MANUAL with the SwitchlistGenerator and ran it.

Although the F8 monitor indicated that this switch was diverting, the player train also diverting, it's blades had not moved.

The Route Riter has a "Correct Stuck Points" option which fixed that !

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/switches-msts-orts.wmv
Alt-Enter to view Full-Screen.

Again the hiss of the train brakes being released goes on and on.

This is a MSTS default route using it's default ACELA !

It has now been 2-1/2 years since the first release of an ORTS Beta, so how much longer will it be before a fully working version of it will be available ?

O t t o

[apco25]

OR is NOT a front end for MSTS, it is a replacement. The potential in OR far outweighs the if aint broke don't fix it mentality ruling with MSTS.


Pie in the sky! MSTS runs well enough. Like I said I was just hoping for a better front end for MSTS. I run it on a 28" at 1600x1200 so the graphics aren't that bad. Just the interface is clunky.

Harold[/QUOTE]

I think if the MSTS AI was just a little more intelligent, OR may have never started...
Tyler

OR would still have started. MSTS has so many limitations. Models and routes have long ago out grown it. Something better was needed and it is IS here. As it stands it is still a beta. Should have the product been rushed to market, or let the developers get all the bugs worked out first?

[tbundy1982]

Lets take our time and have fun with it!

Tyler

[csantucci]

Only a small remark: as far as I know ORTS does not distinguish between automatic and manual switches. They are all managed the same way.

[hminky]

OR is NOT a front end for MSTS, it is a replacement.

Let see OR does what:

Uses MSTS stock, MSTS routes, and MSTS activities and runs them.

OR is just a front end for MSTS.

OR uses MSTS for the back end, building routes and activities.

OR is like one of those high def packs for DukeNukem3D.

Not saying anything is wrong with that. But don't say it is a NEW train sim.

Harold

[baldwin]

OR is a replacement for MSTS. It does not use the train.exe file. It does use MSTS stock and scenery files, but then I suspect that when this project was started MSTS was the only horse in town.

When making complaints or moaning about ORTS, you have to remember that this is still very much a beta, and is being coded by people giving up their free time, or at least some of it when they can. There are a lot of things that need to be sorted out, route builder and activity builder among them, but if you consult the roadmap, you will see that they are on the list of THINGS TO DO.

As for comparing OR to a DukeNukem3D pack you are comparing chalk with cheese.

[hminky]

C'mon man! It is Beta 0.8.1366 and you can't even run switching activities.

Harold

[OTTODAD]

As far as I know ORTS does not distinguish between automatic and manual switches. They are all managed the same way.

That seems to be the case, but some switches have frozen blades in MSTS and they will not move although F8 indicates that they have in MSTS as well as in ORTS.

Check switches in routes EXPLORE ROUTE MODE and if their blades do not move then they have FROZEN ones which can be fixed with the Route Riter !

O t t o