New TSRE route editor tips & tricks

[scottb613]

Getting Goku to add it was like talking him into letting me pull several of his teeth.

Marathon Man style - LOL...


Regards,
Scott



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[CSRX]

Vince,
Not sure if mentioned, I was looking into the curvature of the railroad I am working on. In our timetable, there are sections that show the curve being "2 degree" and some that are "1-15 Degree". Is there a way to best match this in the sim?

[Vince]

Hi Shawn,

Being that any marker set can be as much as a mile off depending on the location I just treat any curves as a pseudo spiral starting a curve with large radii sections transitioning to smaller.

Translating a RR timetable you'd have to know what the notations mean. A 2 degree curve seems simple enough but the 1-15 looks possibly like a gradient notation? But together with the 2 degree value I don't have a clue as to what it means. That would possibly be explained in an employee manual.
There's another measurement used for curves; "CHAIN" Now this is a value that could have something to do with the 1-15 part. I googled that (chain) some years back and decided that was getting waaay too involved with micro-protypical building and would add years to lay out to get it 'right'

I use markers and satellite photos of where the track goes (or went) and if I'm a few degrees off I'll bet you'll never notice when driving a train nor will anyone else running the route.

The biggest mistake builders make is crazy abrupt grade changes like +1 degree up to a -1 degree down. Terrible not to mention sloppy trackwork which reflects on the author so much more that a few degrees shift in a curve.
Just keep the grade transitions nice and smooth and you'll love the result.
Sorry I couldn't provide a translation of your timetable notations.

regards,

[scottb613]

The biggest mistake builders make is crazy abrupt grade changes like +1 degree up to a -1 degree down. Terrible not to mention sloppy trackwork which reflects on the author so much more that a few degrees shift in a curve.

Like any of the Marias Pass routes...

Regards,
Scott

[conductorchris]

1-15 might be 1.15 degrees.

Googling chainage probably won't help because railroads use a different chain measurement than the rest of the world in which (if I am remembering right) a chain is merely 100 feet. I know Jerry can chime in and set me straight.

Christopher

[drelyea]

Hi,

The 1-15 degree curve is 1 degree, 15 minutes. Or 1.25 degree.

These come from the time the railroads used a table of curve radii that was measured in degrees. There used to be a pdf of a handbook over at Hawk's site that included the table.

What I wound up doing in Tristate to "match" curves was test fit an initial 20 degree piece to the markers, then trial and error easements at the ends that gave me the best fit to the markers, and the next tangent. The reason for this was the Delta (keyboard doesn't have the upright equilateral triangle for that) was actually more critical. I'm still looking for the A1t1000r 3 degree, 17 minute, 44 second piece.

IIRC not many of the curves in Tristate were full degree ( or degree and fraction ) curves from the table, many were either adjusted to fit the terrain, or were a compound curve, drawn to fit the terrain or available property or both.

Of the valuation maps I have (Erie, DL&W, NYS&W, L&NE, and a few from the others), only the Erie's set of Property maps with a never built railroad in the D&H Canal bed (mostly) had chains as a unit of measure, and then only for the property lines. The ROW centerline was measured in feet. (This is likely the closest thing to a Valuation map the world might ever see of the D&H canal)

Doug Relyea

[scottb613]

Hi Doug,

Much of the technical stuff is far more than I've ever done in RE - I can personally attest that you make some of the smoothest track runs I've seen in TS - really nice work - sir...

Regards,
Scott

[charlie]

The 1-15 degree curve is 1 degree, 15 minutes. Or 1.25 degree.

These come from the time the railroads used a table of curve radii that was measured in degrees. There used to be a pdf of a handbook over at Hawk's site that included the table.

Railroad engineers in the U.S. use degree of curvature to determine the sharpness of a curve. The definition is found by connecting two points on an arc with a 100-foot chord, drawing radii from the center of the arc to the chord end-points, and then measuring the angle between these radii lines.

Instead of using an arc as is commonly used in road work, this image shows the chord method for railroad work.

regards,
charlie

[landnrailroader]

While the definition you have given of a curve is correct, I once surveyed some railroad curves in
the Vanderbilt surveying class, which all engineer students, regardless of major had to take. To
do it with a transit, is to place the transit over the stake that will start the spiral, and back sight
on the previous stake to align the transit to the curve. Most railroads use a 10-chord spiral, so
you take the proposed length of the spiral and calculate the chords for 10 pieces that increase
in degree of curvature by .1xdesired degree of curve. Thus if the curve is to be a 2 degree
curve, each increment will be .2 degrees, and the chords may be more or less than 100'. Once
in the body of the curve, you would back-sight on the previous stake and turn the transit 2
degrees, then measure (chain i.e.) 100' out along the new chord. It is also possible to leave
the transit at the first location and turn the transit incrementally for each segment, i.e.
chord, and most handbooks will have tables for that. Knowing that I was interested in
railroads, my team was assigned to lay out a railroad track for our final exam, while others
got roads. My team had the urge to kill until they realized that the chord method was
easier than the arc method.

Landnrailroader

[CSRX]

Thanks for all the responses folks! I noticed some of the curves I was a bit off with, but so far doing my best to match. To be honest, running the real lines myself daily, it will bug me knowing something isn't correct, but if others don't notice it, then that is great. Grade changes have always been a stickler for me, and if they are rough transitions like many many routes that are out, they will not be used by me. This is why I mainly have Paul Charland routes, or my own. I haven't found many other routes including payware, that are smooth when it comes to this.

the 05m straight I noticed worked better than the 10m straight I was always working with, so many thanks for that tip!

I pushed my route for a total of 20 miles. the long tangents are probably the most difficult part for me to keep, though I did find a curve section that blends well for the most part, and to be honest, some of the long tangents we have, over the years, have shifted off the original alignment anyways, giving off that slight curve look.

[landnrailroader]

Adjacent piece not loaded & database line visible, track (or road) is not

Colleagues,

I have a minor problem, minor in that I have a backup and have not done too much work,
but I have a question.

I was using RE and CatMaster to place wire & gantries on the Virginian route that will come
sometime after I complete the MCOA2. Suddenly I noticed that I had a database line through
a tunnel that should have had 2x100 meter tunnel pieces, but there was no track piece
visible. Also, I got the "adjacent piece not loaded etc." error if I selected a visible piece which
in this case is a 50 meter bridge piece on either end of the tunnel.

This begs the question: Orphan poles are relatively easy to correct in TSRE but is there
a way to fix this situation. In other words, can one delete the invisible pieces and then replace
them? Also, I note that the "W" key does not turn off terrain rendering, although the ""/"
key does allow diving below ground.

And lastly I notice that tips & tricks seem to have come to an end in early May. I would
suggest that anyone that works out a fix for some obscure error, like I mentioned above,
could help a lot by including an instruction on the fix. I have started using TSRE more
and more, although on the MCOA2 I am mainly using the alignment function to fix skewed
bridges etc.

J. H. Sullivan
(aka landnrailroader)

[GokuMK]

Instead of MSRE "W" key, you can use menu action View -> Hide terrain shape.

You can remove TDB lines with no shape. You need to separate the line from other track, but leave at least one good track.
Then select the one good track and use option Hacks -> Remove TDB Vector. Make backup before using it because you can damage the database if you use it the wrong way.

[Vince]

Hi Jerry,

Missing track with TDB still showing can be fixed as Goku advises.

I have been successful in fixing the situation you're in by using the [Hacks] button on the Track Object Panel (at bottom)TSRE_Hacks_Button.jpg
In your case you would select the [ Remove TDB Vector (Remove TrItems First) ] bar.

A "Vector" can be defined as all the track between two Red Poles or Red Pole and EndNode or two EndNodes.

The above 'hack' removes the track from the track database leaving the track as static objects.
I have used this and it does work. Backup first!

Now all is needed is to click on each track section between the two red poles to restore them to the TDB and at the same time you would add the two missing 100 meter track sections.

I see Goku has responded with a short-to-the-point suggestion . . . good one! I'm waaaay too long winded.

As far as database line present with NO track, a 'Rogue Blue Pole' I don't know a way. I had asked Goku about the possibility of being able to remove 'Rogue' database lines by clicking on the number displayed but no joy there yet but am hoping.

Re the "W" key show/hide terrain. . . . . In TSRE you can do it with Alt+V+H or use the Menu.

regards,

[landnrailroader]

Now I am confused

Between Vince & Goku I am really confused now. Attached is a image of the error. Actually there
is a 50M bridge piece (selected, blue) at one end, and a curve piece at the other, but no visible
tunnel pieces in between. I'll back it up just so I can try more than once if I have to, but I was
just piddling with a backup copy anyway while perfecting how to provide Virginian style gantries
with the route anway when this occurred in RE. Theoretically, I could rebuild the database but
for some weird reason when I do the program never comes to and end, and continues testing
world tiles beyond the limits of the route, and as we know that is a iffy procedure anyway, so I
want to learn the better way. Goku, if you can, even if it takes a separate utility, perhaps a
database rebuild process would be helpful.

J. H. Sullivan

[landnrailroader]

Vince,
Goku,

It is also possible that the shallow angle of the track crossing the tile boundary caused the
problem in the first place. I didn't lay this area, it came to me from Simon van de Laak
and eventually I plan to complete the route.

Vince, when you refer to a vector between two poles, does this mean that I should
remove the vectors between poles on either side of the "gap". There are some sidings
on the line but it is probably 3 or 4 miles between turnouts, i.e. red poles.

J. H. Sullivan