Would you pay for an Activity Editor for OR/MSTS and support TSRE development?

[GokuMK]

Here is something about past and future of TSRE development.

The past:

Last summer I moved to my family in Belgium. Now I regret this decision a lot.
They didn't had central heating system. My mom always say that she doesn't want a central heating, because it is too expensive.
I already knew that it is very cold in the winter in their house and it may be a disaster for me because I don't have a strong health.
So, I decided to buy my own electric heating and pay for the bills. I hate asking others for money for nothing, it is unacceptable behavior for me. That is how the AE idea came out. So, that people can pay for something new.
It all ended up with a great success and I had my money for my own heating. Sadly, it turned out that electric heating is not acceptable for my mom because it uses a lot of electricity and she is worried about the fire it may cause. So, I was not allowed to bring something like this in her home. At first I wanted to just go back home in Poland, but then someone from a railway company offered me a project that might be a great future for TSRE. I had to stay in Belgium if I wanted to do it, because I couldn't fit my big computer in a plane luggage ...
So, I decided to stay and invested all your money not in electric heating but in this big project. "How bad the winter could be" I thought.
And then came the winter. It bring not only the cold, but also storms, because we have big ocean just outside our window. And my eyes got sick. I have already bad eyesight, so with eye sickness it was very difficult to work on the computer or just read. And then my mom took me to remove hidden wisdom teeth in hospital. After the surgery there was very cold month, and we had only 13 degrees c at home. I think that because of that I got strong ill. I had to take antibiotics and they destroyed something in my eyes, so that trying to read was very painful and I couldn't work on the computer at all. And that's how the months long nightmare started. It is very difficult to find help if you don't know the language and my English is also far from the level where you can talk with the doctor. There were days when I just saw no end of this nightmare because over next months it was nothing better with my eyes and I began to think about saying goodbye to the world. Good thing that during this summer it began to be better and after all this nightmare my mom decided to buy the central heating ...

Present:

Now since two months I'm working hard on the route project for the guy from a railway company. To get at least the money back ..
It should be done long time ago, so I'm working on it most of the time when I can use my computer.
Here is on what I was working this weekend:

https://imgur.com/a/FjI32ns

And here are some previous sections:

https://imgur.com/a/dPyNBbS

It is already 90% done, so it should be done in next three weeks. The route is far from what I wanted to be, because none of the new TSRE features is finished, so I had to build it mostly using old MSTS like way. Anyway, TSRE is already mature route building software. I had only one crash during building this 50 km long route.
So, I returned to the OR forums to see what I've missed over the months and tell you the good news that TSRE development will soon be resumed ... and was greeted with a ban.

Future:

I know that Dave might not like me, but the insane thing is that now it's not a Dave decision, but ORMT.
Dave proposed to give me access to the OR development forum, but ORMT decided that they doesn't want me at all!
So, this is a shock for me. You put insanely amount of work in something and then you hear that you are just redundant and we don't need you?
Community is a crucial thing in opensource software. You can hate your work if you are well paid, but in free work, it's just not possible.
This means end of OR for me forever. And there is no way that I'm going back.
If they feel my presence "abusing", then no problem. There will be no me anymore.
This absurd is happening not only here. Look below - creator of Linux goes away from Linux because some people that do nothing, think that he is abusing ...

http://fortune.com/2018/09/17/linux-git-linus-torvalds-bullying-abuse-time-off/

Maybe my help was rude sometimes, but at least it was there! I've learned English from movies and tv shows. That's how people speak there. People from other parts of the world doesn't have this comfort as people from murrica where you just know English. I recommend you all go and and try to learn some language and then try to express yourself.

So, there are two options for TSRE now:

1. I'll continue to develop TSRE as a standalone solution for train simulation. Of course TSRE will remain free open source, so if some OR developers will want to keep TSRE and OR compatibility, then I see no problem I will be happy to work together. But I won't touch OR, never! Considering that implementing new features like procedural shapes, activity world objects, procedural terrain, dynamic lighting etc. requires a lot of work and because there is only one active OR developer (Csantucci), I see no way that it will work without my help.
So, I don't see a future there.

2. I'll drop not only OR but TSRE too. I like to work on TSRE a lot but considering my health and how much more work it will require to make TSRE a standalone solution for train simulations, I may just quit from this hobby completely. Game development requires outstanding skills, insane amount of work and at the end you always get low paid and a lot of complaints.
In this case TSRE still remains free and open source, so anyone can continue the work. But considering that almost no one wants to work with excellent and well documented OR code, I think that no one can handle TSRE ugly and undocumented sources.

--
"I want a refund"!
A didn't promise much and all I promised is done. So, no refund ...

[NW 2156]

Goku, This whole situation is truly insane. I personally feel ORTS development and it's future was finished a long time ago for too many reasons to really list here.

I would like to see TSRE5 continue as a replacement for the MSTS RE and AE which is complete rubbish. There are some features though TSRE is missing and one of them is the ability to align track on a grade like MSTS RE can. This was the discussion that started the whole war on ET to begin with. But this feature is very much needed for those like me who have nothing but hills and steep grades to lay out in route building.

Maybe you could continue interacting with ORTS development here on TS.com or on UKTS.com in some capacity?

Robert

[eric]

Goku, it's ultimately your choice to stay or walk away. We've seen countless people announce their departure in a moment of rage. Some do it to try and get sympathy from others, some do it out of frustration, some are simply burnt out on the hobby and whatever the latest dispute this was the last straw.

There are several of us who produce utilities for the MSTS/ORTS file systems outside the umbrella of the development team.

My suggestion: Take some time off, and when you're ready, remember how much support you've seen from the community as a whole, including ideas and financial donations. Then decide what you want to do.

[GokuMK]

There are several of us who produce utilities for the MSTS/ORTS file systems outside the umbrella of the development team.

I was never interested in "producing utilities", but developing a train simulation software. I like great, new features and without access to OR dev forum it's kind of not possible with OR. At least in a way that I could have any satisfaction from it.

Goku, it's ultimately your choice to stay or walk away.

It wasn't my choice to go away from OR team.

[hminky]

1. I'll continue to develop TSRE as a standalone solution for train simulation.

Please.

Harold

[geepster775]

Utilities may not have been your intended goal, but these utilities are the greatest political capital you can assemble from the user base right now. A calm, deliberate, politically skilled person would never throw that asset away just because they have a dream to play starting forward for the Lakers to the extent they unilaterally introduce different size league equipment and ignore the draft procedures and associated NBA rules of order. Creating your own basketball league in retaliation only goes so far when you squander your political capital.

[ebnertra000]

Goku,

I don't know if anyone's told you the ORMT's reason for not permitting you back into the ET forums, but from what I read there, it was basically because the terms they were offered from the ET Admin(s?) was basically read-only priveleges on the OR Development private and/or public forums. So no replying, or PMs, or anything of the sort by way of ET. The Management team concluded that that didn't make a whole lot of sense for developing, and I guess decided that no deal was better than a bad one. It sounds like Carlo for sure is open to dealing with Goku here, and I'm willing to bet that some of the other devs would be, too.

(I'm hoping that someone on the dev team, or better yet, the Management Team, can shed more light on this)

So, Piotr, with this and any other information that comes to light in mind, I hope you'll reconsider stepping away from the OR project. If a break is necessary, so be it, but with all the support from here and probably a few other places, it's pretty apparent that a large number of people (myself included) value the work you've done and don't want to see it end this way

[Bujumbura94]

I like great, new features and without access to OR dev forum it's kind of not possible with OR.

[advut]

Creating your own basketball league in retaliation only goes so far when you squander your political capital.

When a person isn't from USA and his first language isn't English do you have to use these kind of words to lecture him and that too with throwing the name NBA?!?!

To Goku, I realise TSRE isn't a complete train sim platform but if you work on it to make it so you could sell it on Steam and earn money. As ORTS is open source you can implement some of it's code into TSRE to make your work easier. Why allow people who dislike you and want you go away win?

[edwardk]

Goku,

I don't know if anyone's told you the ORMT's reason for not permitting you back into the ET forums, but from what I read there, it was basically because the terms they were offered from the ET Admin(s?) was basically read-only priveleges on the OR Development private and/or public forums. So no replying, or PMs, or anything of the sort by way of ET. The Management team concluded that that didn't make a whole lot of sense for developing, and I guess decided that no deal was better than a bad one. It sounds like Carlo for sure is open to dealing with Goku here, and I'm willing to bet that some of the other devs would be, too.

(I'm hoping that someone on the dev team, or better yet, the Management Team, can shed more light on this)

So, Piotr, with this and any other information that comes to light in mind, I hope you'll reconsider stepping away from the OR project. If a break is necessary, so be it, but with all the support from here and probably a few other places, it's pretty apparent that a large number of people (myself included) value the work you've done and don't want to see it end this way

Being one of the developers as well, Goku was given full privileges to the developers area, but read access only to the public area and no PM abilities. I am guessing as well that ORMT felt the option to just let Goku go was the only and best option. If Goku is open to it, I can also help.

[MMSS]

Being one of the developers as well, Goku was given full privileges to the developers area, but read access only to the public area and no PM abilities. I am guessing as well that ORMT felt the option to just let Goku go was the only and best option. If Goku is open to it, I can also help.

The how do you communicate with the development team? That is what I meant in the original post having the forum hosted through 3rd party isn't correct. Yes you can have a section for OR on one, but for the only source for the OR team showing developments & interacting with others that are interested in the project, that is not a great thing to do.

I could never understand why some groups that produce wares like this cut off their noses to spite their faces (BTW you posted that amusing antidote first Jerry & I thought the same thing). Many are pointing their fingers at Piotr saying he was rude ( I got the joke that he intended and actually laughed, maybe too cryptic for most), maybe he is frustrated, maybe looking for sympathy, maybe he is burnt out. But with all the posts I read, I look also in the other direction also. Maybe certain members of the team there are jealous. Because he developed a major piece of the puzzle, alone I might add, that is usable in a short period of time. No team help in the beginning, just him, then input for the team and community members from forums like this.

I agree not forum should have posts that are insulting, belittling or with hatred. I ran forums & even BBS's back in the C64/128 days and never put up with that. BUT, find out first what the user meant first (Unless it is obvious) before performing haste judgement.

For me, after I finish a few activities people on here been waiting for, I think I will be walking away from it. Not acting in haste, gave it a lot of thought after the week's past events. Just seems that the community is becoming too closed minded. Times and things change, I agree. But from how I see it though my eyes, it is not heading for the better.

And to Piotr, best of luck in your future endeavours. And watch that humor you have, it is caustic ! (Laughing)

[demando]

I myself have given this a lot of thought, and it's hard for me to even think about this whole mess after devoting 6+ years to this game. Since the JKY debacle, our community has become very fractured. And now along comes Goku, who like stated in the above post, creates a piece of software for his PhD and ultimately gets kicked off one board over a perception problem. Sure, Dave can run his board all he wants however he wants - but that can go both ways. His board is very specialized, and over the years felt like a home to me. But now I too am walking away from ORTS because I don't feel any of this is right. You know what they say - vote with your wallet. Well, I might as well walk over to the other buggy sim and try to figure that all out. At least their editor works! But to pull this back to topic, I wish Goku well, and if he decides to go on his own and build his own simulator, I offer my support and services if needed.

[mikban]

Statement from the builders of the Stockholm route regarding recent events:

Statement from the builders of the Stockholm route regarding recent events:

The Stockholm route has been in continuous development since 2010. We have made good use of and enjoyed Goku’s TSRE route builder since version 0.610, which has greatly eased our efforts in pushing past set boundaries. To this date, we haven’t encountered any problems with TSRE we haven’t been able to work around and been able to successfully solve in corporation with Goku, who has continued to both address and solves bugs as they have been reported to him by the community.

Understanding the cultural differences, firstly in terms of written communication, but also in perception of values and norms, being able to objectively contemplate any written statement is a perquisite to facilitate effective cross-cultural communication.

Facing differences in several cultures, whether they are being, age, language, origin, belief or one of many more, we have seen Goku made increasing improvements to his written language and his efforts to accommodate various communicates from different forums.

Being the sole developer of TSRE, a software that has brought more possibilities to our work that would have otherwise been possible, we have chosen to financially back Goku through donations considering the effort, work, and personal difficulties he has been facing. We will continue to do in the future.

We appreciate the good cooperation we have had thus far with Goku and will to the furthest extent possible continue the same.

We should also like to thank Carlo Santucci for his efforts in compiling a stable ORMG 64-bit version. His efforts have been equally important to us as we would not have been able to continue our work otherwise.

In conclusion we should like to invite the communities to contemplate the answers given by the developers, and to ask questions when in doubt, whilst bearing in mind TSRE is a beta with no definite promises made.

The team behind the Stockholm route

September 2018

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