Mullan Expansion Pack-Centralia Coal West activity

[R. Steele]

There are issues here with saves not restoring properly that are complicating the wheel slip physics....

Yes, currently steamer_ctn is aware of the issue and is looking at the code...this I know from reading threads over at ET. There has always been a problem with the code regarding wet rail conditions that has never been sorted out...complications arise ( or so I've read ) from the early code not being properly documented and the problem of introducing unintended effects when modifying the code.

Anyone with the code skills and knowledge to help with the problem should contact someone on the development team.

[CSRX]

As someone who runs older equipment every day in the real world (GP38-2's, GP40-2's, and SD70M-2's) I can tell you, Open Rails is pretty spot on with the wheel slip issues. Especially on mountain grades much like the Mullan Pass. (grades are slightly higher on the Mullan compared to the Bellows Falls Sub, but the curves are just as tight, and it's a 20 mile climb just as well one direction.)

As for wheel slip "running out of control", Well, fall season is a terrible season of just that, constant wheel slip, sometimes to the point the wheels break free and next thing you know, the speedo is reading 58mph when really, you are struggling at 8mph.

It sounds like some just want an unrealistic game versus a simulation. That's what Train Sim World is for.. honestly.

Sure, automatic sanders kick in from time to time when it senses a slip, which I do understand ORTS fails on this part, but sometimes you just have to flick the switch on from the very start and let it go until you make it.
Hitting Ctrl + X helps, just like holding the button down in the real world..

[SMRY]

As someone who runs older equipment every day in the real world (GP38-2's, GP40-2's, and SD70M-2's) I can tell you, Open Rails is pretty spot on with the wheel slip issues. Especially on mountain grades much like the Mullan Pass. (grades are slightly higher on the Mullan compared to the Bellows Falls Sub, but the curves are just as tight, and it's a 20 mile climb just as well one direction.)

As for wheel slip "running out of control", Well, fall season is a terrible season of just that, constant wheel slip, sometimes to the point the wheels break free and next thing you know, the speedo is reading 58mph when really, you are struggling at 8mph.

It sounds like some just want an unrealistic game versus a simulation. That's what Train Sim World is for.. honestly.

Sure, automatic sanders kick in from time to time when it senses a slip, which I do understand ORTS fails on this part, but sometimes you just have to flick the switch on from the very start and let it go until you make it.
Hitting Ctrl + X helps, just like holding the button down in the real world..

Is Mullan pass the 20miles?.
Seem in my day BFSub was pretty much a 50 mile climb out of BF. to Rutland.
Auto sanders, wish we had those at times, little toggling of the fingers, throttle finesse saw us thru, seemed fall was worst, rather than snow season. As, you know even rain can be problematic at times. I still prefer any 4axle over any 6, &, or, have no use for anything desktop... lol..

[SMRY]

Thought perhaps Shawn being along your charge these days, may enjoy these snapshots of us after mishaps at Mt. Holly end of 80s / early 90s. I tried using TS PM, but only offered url when it came to including pictures. Anyways once given a reasonable chance to view moderator may wish to remove if indeed an issue.

Wreck 1.jpgWreck 2.jpgWreck 3.jpgWreck 4.jpg

[CSRX]

From Helena to Blossburg is 20 miles of a grind.

Rutland to Summit, 15 miles. (MP B49.5 to MP B34), Summit to Proctorsville (MP B34 to MP B23) 11 miles, then just becomes a constant up and down battle the rest of the way.


Glad we haven't had a wreck like that on the line in the current age. Last one like that was the one in Whitehall, NY, on the tight curve.

[pschlik]

As for wheel slip "running out of control", Well, fall season is a terrible season of just that, constant wheel slip, sometimes to the point the wheels break free and next thing you know, the speedo is reading 58mph when really, you are struggling at 8mph.

How about the speedo showing 2,237 mph when you are really going 5 mph and it's a nice dry summer day? Because that's what Open Rails will do. The only reason you can't get slip running away to 1,000,000 mph is that there's a hard limit of 1,000 meters per second. If that limit wasn't there, the wheels would keep speeding up forever. Never mind the fact that in real life the axles and motors would have violently exploded by then.

Open Rails is a long way from reality there, and don't even start about Train Sim World when slip is significantly more broken there than in Open Rails. At least their own "implementations" of wheel slip "control" don't move the throttle handle for you-but I guess the throttle handle moving by itself when something slips is spot on as well, huh?

[CSRX]

How about the speedo showing 2,237 mph when you are really going 5 mph and it's a nice dry summer day? Because that's what Open Rails will do. The only reason you can't get slip running away to 1,000,000 mph is that there's a hard limit of 1,000 meters per second. If that limit wasn't there, the wheels would keep speeding up forever. Never mind the fact that in real life the axles and motors would have violently exploded by then.

I'm sorry, I have not once seen that issue.

[SMRY]

lol this you Shawn?...
VTR4 Date 01-29-11.jpgVTR3 Date 01-29-11.jpgVTR2 Date 01-29-11.jpgVTR1 Date 01-29-11.jpg

[CSRX]

lol this you Shawn?...
[ATTACH=CONFIG]81565[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]81566[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]81567[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]81568[/ATTACH]

Negative, that was before my time.

[SMRY]

Shawn sent ya a pvt PM may take a moment to reach TS

[bennycdn]

What a challenging and well thought out activity. I ran it with MG 96.

[R. Steele]

Originally Posted by pschlik:
How about the speedo showing 2,237 mph when you are really going 5 mph and it's a nice dry summer day? Because that's what Open Rails will do. The only reason you can't get slip running away to 1,000,000 mph is that there's a hard limit of 1,000 meters per second. If that limit wasn't there, the wheels would keep speeding up forever. Never mind the fact that in real life the axles and motors would have violently exploded by then.

I'm sorry, I have not once seen that issue.

For a complete discussion regarding this point --- please see this thread at Elvas:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...ing-wheelslip/

[R. Steele]

What a challenging and well thought out activity. I ran it with MG 96.

Yes, agree. I ran it --- an expansion of the activity "Mullan Helper Service"? I'm going to try it on wet rail (rain) and see what happens.
Big difference from the Helper Service is the equipment change to ES44C4s.

[R. Steele]

One addition to the comments about the activity, looking over the TS engine files, the one thing that jumps out at me is the misunderstanding of the OR parameter "MaximalPower" in the OR diesel engine definition. It is often confused with the msts term "MaxPower".

"MaximalPower" is maximum power of the prime mover --- ie. Brake HP or Power at the Shaft. I have understanding that it is defined that way in the code. It is not Traction Power ( power available to the traction motors ) or Rail Hp ( power at the rail ). I'm willing to admit to an error in understanding here --- but I'll need some proofs, not opinions.

[CSRX]

For a complete discussion regarding this point --- please see this thread at Elvas:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...ing-wheelslip/

Not denying the issue one bit, just simply saying, I have not experienced this issue once. Only in real life, but, not to THAT extreme.

From what I gather, ORTS physics are some of the most accurate physics out of all the current train simulation games available. That's just me though, but this is starting to go a little off topic honestly.


I have seen people mention about losing a lot of speed. This is normal with heavy mountain railroading. Just remember, inform the dispatcher you are not able to make track speed.