Mullan Expansion Pack-Centralia Coal West activity

[niknak]

Hi guys, anyone tried this act yet from the new expansion pack? I keep stalling around MP11 after picking up the helpers earlier. I've tried various power settings to no avail and sanding doesn't seem to help at all.

[PerryPlatypus]

Have you confirmed whether your OR settings match what was recommended in the Mullan Pass manual? Particularly your adhesion correction percentage, etc. What version of OR are you using? And what frame rates are you getting?

[niknak]

Hi Sean and thanks for such a prompt reply. Yes all my settings are as per the manual except I don't have the rain/snow/fog adhesion ticked as I figured that would make things worse. Adhesion correction is at 130%. I'm using the latest MG update rev 96. Frame rates are around 15-20 atm as I'm using a laptop with 1GB integral graphics whilst my desktop is in for repair. Could this cause the problem? Great route and activities btw!

[PerryPlatypus]

You're welcome! My recommendation would be to try out the activity using the Stable version of OR first. It is quite common that intermediate versions (both the unstable versions and the Monogame versions) have issues that crop up in the code that affect adhesion, tractive effort, etc. So there is a chance that is the issue.

That being said, I have also noted that, when frame rates drop below about 20-25 FPS, it often has a negative effect on the performance of the OR adhesion model. This is because the adhesion model is directly tied to frame rates, from my understanding. I have had numerous times where, if the frame rates suddenly stutter a bunch or drop, it triggers either a small reduction of adhesion, or enough of a reduction that it actually triggers full-on wheel slip. If you try the Stable version and still have issues, consider reducing your graphics settings (like turning down the visibility distance slider, turning off "Extend object maximum viewing distance to horizon", etc.)

[geepster775]

I made it up and over with the latest weekly build 1.3.1.x342, got down to 13 mph at the low point plus needed sand with about 40% of the hill climbing to keep the C4 glued to the rail. Should not have needed the sand since uphill wheel slip is not possible on a train equipped with 100% AC traction, but I don't think the code is that sophisticated to ping the diesels and see which ones are AC vs DC yet. Full frame rates ~60, no issues there.

Make sure before you switch cabs from the helper back to the lead unit that your independents are released and only main train air is holding the helper+ rear cut prior to vacating the cab.

When running the talc train with just the 2 SD45s as power I did a save while train air was applied approaching the helper spur. When I restored, my SD45 wheels were locked and sliding and buzzers galore. had to fully release the train brakes and then apply them again after all the wheels were rolling again. I attributed that to code and save state issues that seem to be under changes at the moment.

[niknak]

Many thanks guys. I will have another crack at it tomorrow. Fingers crossed!

[niknak]

Update: Made it! I tried on the stable version first but discovered my fps were down by around 6 before I'd even moved off, so went back to MG with all detail sliders etc waaaay down. The landscape was rather bare with most of the trees etc gone but at least it kept the fps in the 20s. Kept to an average of 13mph, same as geepster and didn't need sand. Going back over my earlier attempts, it seems that any fps below around 15 on my laptop causes wheel slip. Funny, I never associated wheel slip with low frame rates, we live and learn. Anyway thanks again guys. ps: just noticed my post number - That's a bit spooky.....!

[uli2]

One observation I made when running this activity: First time I tried switching from the leading locomotive to the cab of the MRL SD70Ace to cut out the helper set at Elliston OR crashed with an error message about "insufficient resources" (or something like that). I was using a fairly recent stable version of OR and never before had any peformance issues, fps usually being between 50 and 60. At the time OR crashed I was in an outside view. I tried again, this time staying in the cab during the consist switching. No problem this time.

[mikeebb]

Update: Made it! I tried on the stable version first but discovered my fps were down by around 6 before I'd even moved off, so went back to MG with all detail sliders etc waaaay down. The landscape was rather bare with most of the trees etc gone but at least it kept the fps in the 20s. Kept to an average of 13mph, same as geepster and didn't need sand. Going back over my earlier attempts, it seems that any fps below around 15 on my laptop causes wheel slip. Funny, I never associated wheel slip with low frame rates, we live and learn. Anyway thanks again guys. ps: just noticed my post number - That's a bit spooky.....!

I've noticed the low frame rate = wheel slip connection too. Suspect that the simulation update rate is correlated with the frame rate, and if it's slow enough the simulation sees the update delay as wheel slip. Unfortunately, the only practical solution is to get a better computer...

Edit: "latest stable version" is ambiguous. What you probably mean is latest (or a recent) weekly. Technically, the "stable version" is what you download from the OR web site, and (sorry) it ain't so stable any more given how far the weeklies (and Monogame) have gone. As a practical matter, someone who installs the "stable" version from OR should immediately go into the Updater tab and choose "Testing" then exit OR completely and reload, then accept the update presented in the top right corner. The advice in the Updater tab about "Stable" being best for most users is a bit misleading.

[flanker]

Hi all,

i have istalled the Mullan Pass Extension and the new Monogame-Version (Rev. 96). I have cut the coaltrain on the wye, but i can't find the 4 Helper.
Have everyone a solution or is this a bug?


Ohhhhh, sorry. It was a fail of my self.

[CSRX]

Ran AC traction power, on a detoured loaded autorack train over grades of close to 2% and tight curves, definitely needed sand just as much as I do daily with DC traction power.

then again, spring time, greasy rails with leaf's still blowing around from fall season, that didn't turn into dust.

ES44C4's if I remember correctly, do not get that good of traction, compared to the ES44AC's.

[ebnertra000]

...

ES44C4's if I remember correctly, do not get that good of traction, compared to the ES44AC's.

The shoddy traction of C4s probably comes from the fact that they're four-axle units in disguise - the center axle of each truck is unpowered. So it probably has a little trouble putting all that horsepower down on the rail

[CSRX]

The shoddy traction of C4s probably comes from the fact that they're four-axle units in disguise - the center axle of each truck is unpowered. So it probably has a little trouble putting all that horsepower down on the rail

I am aware. I feel like the B40-8's we used had better traction, from what I hear.

[pschlik]

Regardless of the locomotive at play, Open Rails' completely nonexistent simulation of wheel slip protection systems causes loads of trouble on routes like Mullan where every other train is running just at its adhesion limit. In real life you have the nice advantage that there's some computer working in the background to prevent slip from running out of control and you don't have to do anything (unless you want to help it out by adding sand, of course). Meanwhile in Open Rails, slip will just go out of control unless you or the dubious "implementation" of AntiSlip( 1 ) lowers the throttle. That alone just makes driving something like an ES44C4 so much of a chore, even more so than it really should be.

I swear I will continue complaining about wheel slip protection until something is done about it, but at this rate I'll be the one making the code for it sometime this summer.

[geepster775]

There are issues here with saves not restoring properly that are complicating the wheel slip physics. On some restores, where the trackmonitor properly shows signals, I am able to continue climbing the grade with no sand. On other restores, the track monitor does not show signals, it shows 'max distance' and I need to CTRL-M twice to get the track monitor back to displaying signals. But then not too long after I go into wheel slip issues that require sand to not stall.

Also, upon cutting out the helpers at Elliston, operating on a 'bad restore' that required sand to attain the summit, my 3 lead units seem unable to back the front part of the train up to re-couple to the rear half. All 3 locos on the lead have differing wheel stats, one is locked and sliding, one other is spinning slow, and the third was spinning fast.