Driving Other Consist?

[PeterB]

I can see problems with the AI helper consist coupling to the rear of player train. It seems to be all dependent on times and timing only, not on anything else (like location).

In my activity, my train travels for awhile before reaching near the bottom of the hill. My train is then stopped just past the siding where (AI) helpers are located. The helpers then couple to the rear of my train, and then my train resumes the activity by now going up the hill with the assistance of the helpers at the rear of my train.

Because my train has to driven for awhile before it has to be stopped the collect the helpers, timing of this procedure is near impossible as it depends on how fast my train is driven. So it is impossible to set a specific time when my train has stopped past the siding and when the (AI) helpers should then move to couple to my train.

The "wait" option for the (AI) helpers is time dependent only (apparently), so setting specific times/delays is impossible as this depends on how fast my train is driven to the coupling location just past the (AI) helpers siding!

For the moment I'm reversing my train into the non-AI helpers siding to couple them to the rear of my train. Note that there are two versions of my activity. One where I reverse my train into the helper siding to couple to non-AI helpers (loose consist), and the other (still under development) where AI helpers are at this helpers siding instead of non-AI (loose consist) helpers. This second activity version is the one I'm having difficulty with.

So how do you get the (AI) helpers to couple to the rear of my train when my train has stopped past the helpers siding?

Detailed (step be step) information would be appreciated instead of the more generic responses so far.

Thank you.

[R. Steele]

....So how do you get the (AI) helpers to couple to the rear of my train when my train has stopped past the helpers siding?

Detailed (step be step) information would be appreciated instead of the more generic responses so far.

Thank you.

It's all in the manual, this is one instance where reading and study will pay off...special waiting points with specific numerical values are placed in the AI path. You'll need to put in some work like Scott, myself and all the others that use these special activity features have done.

A Sample from Manual Section: Extended AI Train Shunting 10.13

10.13.1 General:
Having AI trains performing shunting operations ensures more interesting and varied activities.
Note that this feature is not available in Timetable mode, which has other ways to perform AI Train shunting.
The following additional shunting functions are available:
1. AI train couples to a static consist and restarts with it.

2. AI train couples to a player or AI train and becomes part of it; the coupled train continues on its path.

3. AI train couples to a player or AI train and leaves to it its cars; the coupled and coupling train continue on their path.

4. AI train couples to a player or AI train and steals its cars; the coupled and coupling train continue on their path.

5. AI train uncouples any number of its cars; the uncoupled part becomes a static consist. With the same function it is possible to couple any number of cars from a static consist.

6. AI train couples to a player or AI train; the resulting combined train runs for part of the path, then stops; the train is split there into two parts that continue on their own paths (join and split function).

7. AI train can get permission to pass a signal at danger.

These functions are described in detail below.
A sample activity can be found in Documentation\SampleFiles\Manual\Show_AI_shunting_ enh.zip.

..........and

Activity development
1) The two trains start as separate trains, couple together and decouple later in the game . After that of course such trains can couple to other trains, and so on.

2) The coupling train becomes an “Incorporated” train after coupling, that is it has no more cars or locomotives (they all become part of the coupled train) and is a sort of virtual train. In this phase it is not shown in the Dispatcher information HUD. It will return to life when an uncoupling command (automatic or manual) is issued.

3) To become an “Incorporated” train, the coupling train if of AI type, must pass in its path before coupling over a Waiting Point with value 60001 (the effective waiting time is 0 seconds); such WP is not necessary if the coupling train is the player train.

4) For the coupling train to couple to the rear of the coupled train there are no particular requirements; if however you want to have very short runs from coupling train start to coupling moment, it could be necessary to insert a couple of reversal points in between, or else the train could stop and avoid coupling. Please don’t disdain double reversals: they are sometimes the only way to limit the authority range of a train.

5) If the coupling train has to couple to the front of the coupled train, obviously a reversal point is needed for the coupling train: it must be laid somewhere under the coupled train, or even farther down in the same track section; also in this case there can be a problem of authority, that could require that the coupled train has a couple of reversal points after the point where it waits to be coupled.

6) The incorporated train has its own path, but from coupling to decoupling point it must pass over the same track sections of the path of the incorporating train. The incorporated train must not have waiting points nor station stops in the common path part (the coupled train instead may have them). If there are reversals within the common path part, they must be present in both paths.

7) At the point of decoupling the number of cars and locomotives to be decoupled from the train can be different from the number of the original train.

8) The whole train part to be decoupled must lie on the same track section. After decoupling, the “incorporated” train returns to being a standard AI train.9) Manual decoupling (for player trains) occurs using the F9 window; automatic decoupling occurs with the 4NNSS and 5NNSS commands (see previous paragraph); the first one has to be used when the part to be decoupled is at the rear of the train, and the second one where the part is at the front of the train.

<<<my emphasis above.

[FireEngine]

Good Morning! Just want to know anyone one on here can post an activity and upload it to the file library where this occurs where the helpers work in the yard for us to use so we can see this in action? That would be awesome as we could sit and waatch them work before we moved our train. Thanks A Lot! Much Appreciated!

[PeterB]

R. Steele,

Thanks for the response.

Sorry, but that does not really help much. I have read through (I believe) relevant sections of the OR manual regarding AI helpers movement. But the descriptions within the manual seem to be generic and not detailed enough.

So it is still not clear on what specifically has to be done to enable AI helpers movement.

I had in mind that responses would detail the procedure for having the AI helpers move appropriately. Like, place a waiting point here with a delay of (whatever), and place a location event here with the condition of (whatever), and so on.

A reminder that my activity is basically a simple one, with my train going to the top of a hill where the activity ends. But my train has to stop part way to collect helpers in order for my train to make it up the hill.

That's it! The AI helpers do not have to be decoupled nor anything else. The entire train (helpers included) just goes to the top of a hill where the activity ends.

So, can anyone, please suggest detailed activity actions that have to be done in order for the AI helpers to couple to my train??

Thank you.

[R. Steele]

Are you using MSTS-AE, or TSRE_AE in combination with the OR Trackviewer tool?

Anyway, this is the best I can do, no more time at the moment to guide you through making an activity, perhaps some other member?

https://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/index.html#activities

[PeterB]

Thanks.

I am using MSTS Activity Editor.

I have had a (quick) look at the tutorials at steam4me website, but there doesn't seem to be any relevant tutorials for my activity, unfortunately.

[scottb613]

Hi Peter,

Here's the thread where Carlo introduced us to the feature - he has demos that are for the default route and stock.

You really want to be making Paths with Track Viewer because Track Viewer has these features built in - to setup the needed wait points without the need to edit the file by hand.

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...train-shunting

Regards,
Scott

[scottb613]

Hi Peter,

Here's another from someone who made tutorials based on the BNSF Scenic Sub free demo route on Elvas - just popped up today:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...ng-activities/

Regards,
Scott

[geepster775]

I am using MSTS Activity Editor.

One more item to remember, you can add ORTS custom features to Activity (ACT) files that begin with ORTS{customfeature}, but when you use the old MSTS AE to later modify an activity, it will strip out all these ORTS line statements because ancient MSTS editor software doesn't know what ORTS means.

So be warned when you start adding a bunch of custom ORTS twists and turns to activities, you can no longer use the MSTS AE. Those customizations will not survive the save process.

[R. Steele]

One more item to remember, you can add ORTS custom features to Activity (ACT) files that begin with ORTS{customfeature}, but when you use the old MSTS AE to later modify an activity, it will strip out all these ORTS line statements because ancient MSTS editor software doesn't know what ORTS means.

So be warned when you start adding a bunch of custom ORTS twists and turns to activities, you can no longer use the MSTS AE. Those customizations will not survive the save process.

Above quote !!!!VERY important point!!! Take notice everyone who reads this thread.

[PeterB]

Thanks for the comments.

scottb613,

Thanks for the links. I have had a look at the first link and viewed some "automated" activities, and although interesting, it doesn't really help me as there is no detailed explanation of what "commands" were used in creating these automated activities.

The second (Elvas Tower) link I can't view the topic, possibly because I'm not a member of that forum.

However, on reading posts within the first linked topic, it appears that coupling of (AI) trains onto other (player) trains is enabled when either setting double reverse points just before other (player) trains, or by setting a wait point just before the other (player) train and with a wait point value of 60001.

I've created another test activity using the same player consist but it is stationary and stopped just a bit past the siding where the AI helper locomotives are located. AI helper consist path was set to be same as the player train path.

First attempt to get the AI helpers to couple to my (player) train failed (with no reverse points nor waiting points set) with the helpers stopping short of my train.

On second attempt to get the AI helpers to couple to my train, and this time with two reverse point added near my train, the AI helpers again stopped short of my train and failed to couple to my train. Maybe I didn't place the two reverse points correctly?

On third attempt, by placing a wait point with a value of 60001 near my train, the AI helpers this time successfully coupled to the rear of my train!! And once coupled, the entire train was able to be driven on to complete the activity!

But it seems a bit of a "Mickey Mouse" way of getting AI trains to couple to other trains! How about incorporating specific coupling commands within Open Rails instead of using vague dual reverse points and unusual wait point values!!

The other outstanding issue is to have some means of determining when my (player) train has stopped at (or near) a certain location before enabling the AI helpers to move to couple to my (player) train!

So how to achieve that last part, please!?

Thank you.

[niknak]

Hi Peter,

Here's the thread where Carlo introduced us to the feature - he has demos that are for the default route and stock.

You really want to be making Paths with Track Viewer because Track Viewer has these features built in - to setup the needed wait points without the need to edit the file by hand.

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...train-shunting

Regards,
Scott

Scott I tried this activity but OR crashes when loading saying missing track sections and I probably need X tracks or Y tracks. I have the latest versions of both and all other acts in USA2 route run ok. OR log attached.

Nick

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

While I've used most of the features in Advanced AI Shunting - I'm certainly no expert.

Here's why you - want - to use Track Viewer. Not only do you get a great menu to edit wait points - that will not erase changes - you can do it at native screen resolutions. It's a far better way to create paths.

Double Reverse Points are not specifically involved with connecting or disconnecting cars - it's all the Wait Point.

As far as meeting your train at an unknown time - perhaps you could use Triggers? Maybe set a timed Wait Point to a time you're sure your train will be where it needs to be. Another new feature in ORTS is that I believe AI Trains can trip Triggers - haven't messed with that myself.

I recall downloading one of Carlo's "Helper Activities" that demonstrated said operation - probably from some thread - it worked - and started my endeavors with the feature.


Track Viewer Wait Point Menu
Image1.jpg


Here's the relevant part of my "Helper" Path File - showing what it looks like. This path does some local switching - then connects to the rear of the player train - pushes up the hill - disconnects - does some local switching - then returns down the hill to where it started. I forget if the "disconnect" from player train is triggered in Helper Path or Player Path.

TrackPath (
	TrPathName ( ORTS-CHD-YRD-LO )
	TrPathFlags ( 00000008 )
	Name ( ORTS-CHD-YRD-LO )
	TrPathStart ( "Chad Aux" )
	TrPathEnd ( Chad )
	TrPathNodes ( 94
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 1 4294967295 23 )
		TrPathNode ( 012c0002 2 4294967295 24 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 3 4294967295 12 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 4 4294967295 25 )
		TrPathNode ( 000f0002 5 4294967295 26 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 6 4294967295 12 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 7 4294967295 14 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 8 4294967295 13 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 9 4294967295 8 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 10 4294967295 27 )
		TrPathNode ( 000f0002 11 4294967295 28 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 12 4294967295 8 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 13 4294967295 13 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 14 4294967295 29 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 15 4294967295 30 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 16 4294967295 31 )
		TrPathNode ( 001e0002 17 4294967295 32 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 18 4294967295 30 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 19 4294967295 29 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 20 4294967295 13 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 21 4294967295 8 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 22 4294967295 33 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 24 4294967295 8 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 25 4294967295 13 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 26 4294967295 29 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 29 4294967295 29 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000004 38 4294967295 15 )
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		TrPathNode ( 9cc20002 40 4294967295 39 )
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		TrPathNode ( ea610002 46 4294967295 42 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 47 4294967295 17 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 48 4294967295 1 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 51 50 3 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 4294967295 51 18 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 54 53 4 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 56 4294967295 5 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000001 61 4294967295 43 )
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		TrPathNode ( 00000000 68 4294967295 9 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 69 4294967295 21 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 70 4294967295 47 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 71 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 72 4294967295 49 )
		TrPathNode ( 9cc20002 73 4294967295 50 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 74 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 000f0002 75 4294967295 51 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 76 4294967295 52 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 77 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 78 4294967295 53 )
		TrPathNode ( 001e0002 79 4294967295 54 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 80 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 81 4294967295 55 )
		TrPathNode ( 000f0002 82 4294967295 56 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 83 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000001 84 4294967295 57 )
		TrPathNode ( 001e0002 85 4294967295 58 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 86 4294967295 48 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 87 4294967295 47 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 88 4294967295 21 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 89 4294967295 9 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 90 4294967295 6 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 91 4294967295 5 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000004 92 4294967295 59 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 93 4294967295 4 )
		TrPathNode ( 00000000 4294967295 4294967295 60 )
	)

Regards,
Scott

[PeterB]

Thanks for the comment!

I'm looking at various options and trying to experiment with regard to "timing" of my train with the AI helper consist.

At this stage, not making much progress, but we'll see.

Carlo could probably answer my question specifically, but he doesn't seem to be active here at this forum at present(?)

[scottb613]

Hi Peter,

While the ORTS Developers do play on both sites - it seems that Elvas is the real home to discuss ORTS Development and Features. Might be worth joining over there. I’ve noted Carlo has been a little less active as of late but he still posts over there. Perhaps it might be worth while to start a topic with a title more in line with the current discussion?

Happy New Year…

Regards,
Scott


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