Driving Other Consist?

**niknak** · 12-26-2021, 03:05

Hi, TrainSimulations do this in a couple of activities on their Mullan route. If you press Alt+F9 whilst in manual mode you should get a list of the other consists. Double click on the one you want and you should find yourself in the cab of that other consist. Hope this helps.

Nick.

**PeterB** · 12-26-2021, 04:15

Thanks for that!

Yes, following this procedure (Ctrl M for manual mode, then Alt F9 for consists, then clicking on helper consist) seems to work! I can then drive the helper set locomotives and then couple to the rear of the original player driven consist.

Then I can switch between any of the locomotives (using Ctrl E) within this new configuration for the player driven train, including the two helper locomotives!

But there seems to be a problem now. I can't switch back to "auto" signalling mode (using Ctrl M keys). Get message that this command can't be used for consists without a path! But the two helpers are now part of the original player consist which had a path created originally for this activity.

So how to get back to "auto" signalling for this revised consist? Is it possible to resume the original path (with normal or auto signalling) with the two added helper locomotives? If so, how?

**niknak** · 12-26-2021, 04:41

Hmm you have me there Peter. In the Mullan Pass activity simply using Ctrl E to get back to the lead loco then pressing to return to "auto" mode always works. Hopefully someone else with more knowledge than me ( not difficult ) will be along soon...

Nick

**scottb613** · 12-26-2021, 06:17

Hi Folks,

Just an FYI in case youâ€™re unaware - you can have the AI helpers drive themselves and automatically connect - shove the train up the hill - then disconnect when no longer needed - all by themselves without user intervention - using â€œAdvanced AI Shuntingâ€ feature of Open Rails.

Regards,
Scott

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**geepster775** · 12-26-2021, 08:17

When you join 2 consists, which ever consist you are in 'survives' over the other. If you are aboard the pathless helper and the player is waiting in manual mode, then the pathless helper will survive and the player definition will vanish from the train list. That leaves the combined consist with no path and thus no way to return to auto mode.

There are basically 3 options

Option 1

Position the helper right behind the player but do not couple while occupying the helper. Switch back to player and then nudge back to couple to the helper. That way the pathed player definition survives. When you separate the helper at the top of the grade, it will now be a derivative of the player (it will show as PLAYERXX in the train list, instead of STATIC-XXXXX when you initially added it)

Option 2

Instead of placing the player in Manual mode before jumping to the helper, hold the player via an absolute wait point and keep it in auto mode. Then when you couple up while occupying the helper, both service definitions (STATIC-xxxxx for helper and PLAYER for player) will remain in the train list and you have a brief opportunity to select the survivor by clicking on PLAYER, then the helper should vanish from the list. This opportunity to choose the survivor happens only when the player remains in Auto and is restricted from advancing under Auto because its being held by a wait point. You have to get good at stopping the player as close to the invisible wait point as possible, so it helps to have some form of lineside marker (establish the wait point 3 code line poles from the switch, for example, and then use the code line poles to help you locate the player stopping point.) Again, this option to select the survivor from the Train List window only happens when the player is left in auto and it does not advance because its being held by a wait point.

Option 3

Do as Scott suggests, give the helper a legit path and then it can move around, couple and decouple on its own with the player never having to leave the lead unit. That helper path is going to have to cover all the territory the helper moves while it is combined with the player.

**PeterB** · 12-26-2021, 08:42

Comments noted.

Tried activity again, but still can't resume auto signalling after manually coupling helper locomotives to the initial player train!

Step by step -

1) stop the player train about 20 yards past the switch to the siding where the helper locomotives are
2) set player train lead locomotive reverser to neutral position
3) press Ctrl M keys to set manual (signal) control mode
4) press Shift G keys to set siding switch aligned to main track with player train
5) press Alt F9 keys to bring up train consists menu
6) consists menu shows player train, plus the static helper consist; a total of two entries within the menu
7) double click on "static . . " entry on consists list to enable player into lead helper locomotive cab
8) release helper brakes, reverser set forward in lead helper locomotive
9) drive helper locomotives forward until couple with rear of player train
10) now notice that the player train is no longer listed on the consists menu! Only the "static" consist entry remains on the menu!
11) pressed Ctrl E keys to get back to the lead locomotive cab of the entire train
12) pressed Alt M keys to rest signalling back to normal or auto mode, but fails to do so; get error that consist path has not been set (words to that effect)

It appears that OR considers the combined train (original consist plus the helpers) as a "static" train rather than a "player" train. Player train had path set in activity so that is not a problem. But the loose helper consist did not have a path set for this activity.

So OR treats this combined train as a static one without a set path, which leads to error message appearing that the train has not got a path set so auto signalling is not possible when pressing keys Ctrl M again!

A way around this problem (in the meantime) is to simply reverse the player train into the helper locomotives instead of trying to drive the helper locomotives into the rear of the player train. In this case, pressing Ctrl M keys resumes signalling in auto mode again as OR sees the entire train as a player train with a set path.

If there are activities that work properly (signals resume back to auto mode) after driving helpers onto the rear of trains, then maybe the helpers have had a path set for them within the activity? So when pressing Ctrl M keys again to resume auto signalling then OR runs the activity without issue?

But if the helpers in other activities do NOT have preset paths within the activity, then how on earth does auto signalling resume after (manually) coupling helpers onto player trains!?

EDIT: writing and posting this message before seeing reply #6!

**niknak** · 12-26-2021, 11:07

Peter, I've reread the TrainSimulations instructions for the Mullan Pass act that I mentioned in my 1st post above and they do indeed say that you MUST reverse onto the helpers rather than drive the helpers forward onto the train, a point that you make in your post above. My apologies for not spotting this earlier and pointing it out.

Nick

**geepster775** · 12-26-2021, 11:09

Option 1 is what Trainsimulations relies on for many of its Mullan activities. Their PDF instructions allow you to move around on pathless helpers, but they tell you to always be back aboard the lead unit of the player consist before coupling to the helper part, so the player service and pathing survives.

Option 2 is shown in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlFmEQ15LPA I need to replace my player train lead unit that was damaged. The replacement lead unit for the player is the trailing unit from another AI train. I relocate to engine #2 of the player consist before decoupling the disabled lead unit so the player service and pathing remains with engine 2 through the fred, and the defective lead unit becomes a disposable derivative of the player service. When I add the new lead unit, which has a derivative service definition of the AI train, I manually select the Player service and pathing as the survivor between the two from within the train list. All this time the player service remains in auto mode and is held from advancing further by a wait point.

I think Scott may have done up a steam era video showing option 3, but I can't put my finger on it right now.

**PeterB** · 12-26-2021, 12:03

Thanks for the comments.

Still digesting all the information, but where is the "Advanced AI Shunting" option in OR? I've looked in all options and don't see anything related to shunting at all!? This relates to OR stable version 1.4.

**scottb613** · 12-26-2021, 12:45

Originally posted by PeterB

Thanks for the comments.

Still digesting all the information, but where is the "Advanced AI Shunting" option in OR? I've looked in all options and don't see anything related to shunting at all!? This relates to OR stable version 1.4.

Hi Peter,

Section 10.13 in the manual.

Basically itâ€™s using specialized â€œwait pointsâ€ when building an activity - Track Viewer has the ability to place these extended wait points via a menu for the wait point.

Itâ€™s pretty slick - Iâ€™ve built activities that have an AI helper shuffling cars around the coal yard - the player train pulls in and pulls string off the player train for a drop - player locomotive reconnects to the head end - the AI helper gets done with shuffling and connects to the rear of train - helps push the train to the top of the hill - automatically disconnects - grabs another string of empties and trundles off down the hill - all by itself.

Itâ€™s pretty slick - once you get the hang of whatâ€™s possible - sometimes I donâ€™t even use the player train and just sit back and watch multiple AI going about their duties - making up and breaking down trains - all without intervention.

Regards,
Scott

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**PeterB** · 12-26-2021, 20:48

Noted, thanks. But I'm still a bit puzzled.

I have seen mention of check box(es) within OR Options tab that have to be selected in order to run advanced or extended AI shunting.

Here are a couple of links that mention check boxes.

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind.../page__st__150

Home - TrainSim.Com

https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?323958-Settings-for-OpenRails

Home

However, I don't see any check boxes within OR version 1.4 for enabling Advanced or Extended AI Shunting!?

Where are these check boxes? Have they been removed now from later versions of OR?

**geepster775** · 12-26-2021, 20:56

Originally posted by PeterB

Have they been removed now from later versions of OR?

Yes. The feature has been incorporated by default.

**FireEngine** · 12-28-2021, 04:55

How do you set this up to have helper locomotives do this in yards? Do I use them as loose consist and they do this automatically or do I use them as regular consist as AI traffic to get them to do this? Let me know please.

**scottb613** · 12-28-2021, 06:01

Driving Other Consist?

Originally posted by FireEngine

How do you set this up to have helper locomotives do this in yards? Do I use them as loose consist and they do this automatically or do I use them as regular consist as AI traffic to get them to do this? Let me know please.

Hi.

You can couple or uncouple from either AI or LC. Typically you would have the AI Path intercept the LC - the AI will sense it and slow down to couple. So then I normally use a wait point to tell it how many cars to grab or leave - I add another wait point for a delay before moving again to simulate connecting brake hoses - and finally a reverse point to pull away again to go on to whatever the next move is. All movement still needs a path so keep that in mind. Youâ€™ll need to play with it a little to get the hang of positioning but itâ€™s pretty easy once you try it a couple times.

Having AI doing real work is a godsend - I donâ€™t think many have ever tried.

Regards,
Scott

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