Official v645 Thread

[longiron]

1-I noticed on the latest OR that the engine headlight illumination seems diferrent, should I change my light color to something else, it really makes a cone shape in the simulator, but works well.

2- I thought I read car spawners are operational now, is there a switch to turn them on or did I read it wrong?

rick,
The headlights in OR now read the data from the ENG file including extended BIN lighting definitions. We match the angle of cone and color definitions from the ENG file lighting definitions. We have adjusted the distance on the cone of light at 1/2 the MSTS ENG light definition as MSTS headlights generally illuminated 2x the distance ahead compared to our prototype research.

Cap Spawners do work. It's our initial implementation. We still tweaking the frequency and other parameters within the software. OR reads the carspawner config file for the information on them, but you never know what MSTS did within the core code to adjust things.

[twpol]

The OR team has seen this XNA error before. It means that your video card does not support the minimum HW requirements to run Open Rails. OR requires DX 9.0c or better and Pixel Shader 2.0. This minimum is not met with some laptops with an embedded graphics card or older computers.

This error does not mean that. So much misinformation has followed, too.

runactivity.exe : Error : 0 : System.ArgumentException: The device does not support creating a render target of the given format.
Parameter name: format
at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Graphics.RenderTarget..cto r(GraphicsDevice graphicsDevice, Int32 width, Int32 height, Int32 numberLevels, SurfaceFormat format, MultiSampleType multiSampleType, Int32 multiSampleQuality, RenderTargetUsage usage, Boolean isTexture2D)
at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Graphics.RenderTarget2D..c tor(GraphicsDevice graphicsDevice, Int32 width, Int32 height, Int32 numberLevels, SurfaceFormat format, RenderTargetUsage usage)
at ORTS.RenderFrame..ctor(RenderProcess owner)
at ORTS.RenderProcess.Initialize()
at Microsoft.Xna.Framework.Game.Run()
at ORTS.Viewer3D.Run()
at ORTS.Program.Start(IEnumerable`1 options, String[] args)

What the heck does that mean?

This means that your graphics card does not support dynamic shadows; however, due to a bug (which I am fixing right now) OR still attempts to initialise certain components used for dynamic shadows when they are not eanbled - and in this case the component isn't supported by your graphics card.

Please try the update when we release it (probably in a couple of weeks) as you may well be able to run OR (without dynamic shadows).

Are there any known polygon or vertex limits in OR 0.645, similar to those found in MSTS ? Is there a limit on the number of subobjects per locomotive or waggon model ? Are there such limits for FreightAnims ?

I'm asking because a 92,000-poly-locomotive I created shows up just fine in ShapeViewer, but in OR many parts of it are missing, i.e. it is only partially displayed (just the main body and some parts are displayed, the bogies, wheels and pantos are missing).

I don't believe we have any technical limits for the number of subobjects that would matter (32k subobjects should work, for example) but the index buffers are only 16bit so if a single subobject has more than 65k vertices things might well go wrong. It might even go wrong after 32k in a single subobject, as the code uses signed 16bits, but I'm not certain on that.

I can't think of any other specific limits off-hand but generally speaking OR doesn't set limits on things, so any other limits will probably all be similar in nature to the 16bit indicies.

There are obviously also practical limits, such as the usage of VRAM for textures, vertex and index buffers and so on but I don't think those will matter with only 92k polys on a decent graphics card.

I would say missing parts of a model is more likely a straightforward bug in the handling of something than a limit being hit; is the model publically available? I'd love to have high-poly models to test - whether they currently work or not.

[soapbaux]

I did not imply that most computers lacked PS 2.0; I am saying that, even with it, something else is making this version exclusive.

... due to a bug (which I am fixing right now) OR still attempts to initialise certain components used for dynamic shadows when they are not enabled ...

Whoo-hoo! We're still in the game, dcrails11! I'll put my order for that Cyberpower Intel Core i7-960 gamer on hold for the time being. (just kidding - but I was seriously looking)

[twpol]

runactivity.exe : Error : 0 : System.ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Index not within interval. Richiesto valore non negativo e minore della dimensione dell'insieme.
Nome parametro: index
in System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeExceptio n(ExceptionArgument argument, ExceptionResource resource)
in System.ThrowHelper.ThrowArgumentOutOfRangeExceptio n()
in System.Collections.Generic.List`1.get_Item(Int32 index)
in ORTS.CabCamera.SetCameraCar(TrainCar car)
in ORTS.CabCamera.OnActivate(Boolean sameCamera)
in ORTS.Camera.Activate()
in ORTS.Viewer3D.HandleUserInput(ElapsedTime elapsedTime)
in ORTS.UpdaterProcess.Update()
in ORTS.UpdaterProcess.UpdateLoop()

As I think others have realised, this error happens when a cab-switch (Control-E) tries to switch to a locomotive without a cab view whilst in the cab view. I have fixed this now so that it switches to Camera 2 (for lack of a better option) instead of crashing.

Thanks for the feedback.

[GoGoran]

I don't believe we have any technical limits for the number of subobjects that would matter (32k subobjects should work, for example) but the index buffers are only 16bit so if a single subobject has more than 65k vertices things might well go wrong. It might even go wrong after 32k in a single subobject, as the code uses signed 16bits, but I'm not certain on that.

I believe I exceeded those 65k vertices then, since regrouping the parts - without any other changes, just different group structure - resulted in the correct display of other parts, while some of the parts which showed up previously went missing in OR (as opposed to ShapeViewer).

Would it be possible to change that 16bit index to 32bit ? Or is that limitation inherent to the MSTS-shape format ?

There are obviously also practical limits, such as the usage of VRAM for textures, vertex and index buffers and so on but I don't think those will matter with only 92k polys on a decent graphics card.

Neither do I, since it works alright in ShapeViewer (plus the original 3d model, of course).

Is the model publically available? I'd love to have high-poly models to test - whether they currently work or not.

Not exactly publicly available yet, since it is unfinished. It's a derivative work of a publicly available model, completely retextured and partly scaled for OR/MSTS conversion. Wheels and bogies are not animated yet - doesn't make sense either, as long as I can't get the model to load entirely. I now divided it into two parts, the main body and the bogies/some smaller parts as a FreightAnim - the 32,000 poly body already loads faultlessly, just the 59,000 poly FA has some shapes missing in the OR (not in ShapeViewer!) - like one of four identical wheels, though all the wheels are in the same group ! Maybe I should subdivide the wheel group. But each conversion to MSTS format takes like forever to complete, so at best I can tell tomorrow whether it worked or not.

Sidenote: Somewhere further up I wrote that OR did not support unanimated locos or waggons, but luckily this is not true: It does work, thankfully. This is very good for testing and also low-poly or decorative rolling stock. Of course animated stuff is more perfect and preferrable, but as long as it ain't animated yet you can still use such models in the sim for various purposes.

Screenshots of the loco:

In ShapeViewer it loads alright, no matter whether as a single file with complex group hierarchy (some 12 levels - groups and subgroups and subgroups of subgrouops etc.), or a single file with simple hierarchy (one main group, the rest parallel subgroups), or single file with no hierarchy at all (just a few parallel, non-hierarchical groups). Ditto for the two-file version (main loco + FA).

In OR, either some parts are missing in all cases, and/or the shape gets distorted in grotesc ways.

While I do believe that there is a "standard recipe" for the grouping (hierarchy, individual group size (polys/vertices), etc.), I have yet to find it out. Looks like the groups can be sized bigger than in MSTS, but after all there is a vertex limit as well. I just divided the FA-part of the loco into a few more parallel, non-hierarchical groups than before - I guess this is the way to go, but the conversion to MSTS format takes lots of time, so i can report back tomorrow night, maybe.

Loco as displayed in Shapeviewer, no matter what, it always works correctly there:





Loco as displayed in OR - pictures show different versions of the files, as explained above:


Note the missing snow plow and the first wheels, while the other identical wheels are displayed correctly !


Second panto, other roof parts and snow plow gone AWOL.

Single-shape issue: "Exploded" shapes ...


Note on the silver / white deco lines mismatch around the loco: This is just a texturing issue, which I already identified and resolved. Got nothing to do with OR.

The "exploded shape" is one of the single-file versions.

All pics taken at 1600x1200, but resized to 1024x768 for web viewing convenience.

PS: Please no discussions whether you like this particular loco or not, or whether you could model it just as good with 10,000 polys only. The issues found here are certainly the same as with many other high poly locos. Apart from that, the pictures don't really do it justice and I still have to recolor some parts to make them stick out more and emphasize their being three-dimensional.

[twpol]

Would it be possible to change that 16bit index to 32bit ? Or is that limitation inherent to the MSTS-shape format ?

I'm pretty sure the MSTS format is 32bit; what I'm not so sure about is what the graphics card/driver support for 32bit indexes is like. Something for us to look in to.

Single-shape issue: "Exploded" shapes ...

That looks like the kind of wacky result I'd expect when going over the 16bit index buffer limit. Not sure why the other versions have missing subobjects though, but as I said earlier OR is probably messing up something in the handling of the heirachy.

[csantucci]

As I think others have realised, this error happens when a cab-switch (Control-E) tries to switch to a locomotive without a cab view whilst in the cab view. I have fixed this now so that it switches to Camera 2 (for lack of a better option) instead of crashing.

Thanks for the feedback.

James, thanks for attention.

Carlo

[csantucci]

Mike,
Unfortunately, the sound engine that OR uses (irrKlang) does not support cue points. That's a requirement to play a short segment of a longer wave file. We are already very far along with an alternative sound implementation that will fix that issue as well as offers a lot of new features down the road.

Cue points are implemented and work correctly in ORTS 645 as they do in MSTS. Try to hold down many seconds the space key to play a horn and you will notice it.
The short blast issue depends on how the specific author of the .sms horn stream and .wav horn sound has implemented them, and in first line not on cue points. A good help in solving the issue could come also from the implementation of the SetStreamVolume command as it is implemented in MSTS, that I already put among my wishes.

I use this post also to kindly ask the ORTS team to implement the command to switch from one cab to the other of the same engine/loco (for engines/locos with two cabs), as it is available in the MSTSbin extensions. In ORTS there is the Locomotive flip command, but it is not the same thing.

Carlo

[twpol]

I use this post also to kindly ask the ORTS team to implement the command to switch from one cab to the other of the same engine/loco (for engines/locos with two cabs), as it is available in the MSTSbin extensions. In ORTS there is the Locomotive flip command, but it is not the same thing.

This will be implemented in time, but it is by no means simple to add. The locomotive flip is intended as a stand-in until then.

[apco25]

Meridian Speedway route will not load in v645 giving this error.

Loading TRK TRP(default) TDB SIGCFG DAT ACT RDB CARSPAWN

runactivity.exe : Error : 0 : System.Collections.Generic.KeyNotFoundException: The given key was not present in the dictionary.
at System.ThrowHelper.ThrowKeyNotFoundException()
at System.Collections.Generic.Dictionary`2.get_Item(T Key key)
at ORTS.SignalHead.SetSignalType(TrItem[] TrItems, SIGCFGFile sigCFG)
at ORTS.SignalObject.SetSignalType(SIGCFGFile sigCFG)
at ORTS.Signals.AddCFG(SIGCFGFile sigCFG)
at ORTS.Signals..ctor(Simulator simulator, SIGCFGFile sigcfg)
at ORTS.Simulator.Start()
at ORTS.Program.Start(IEnumerable`1 options, String[] args)

[twpol]

Meridian Speedway route will not load in v645 giving this error.

This is probably a signal head with an undefined SignalType, which has be turned in to a warning for future releases.

[apco25]

I'm also noticing lots of errors with Dwight Mitchell's cabviews complaining about undefidined or duplicate controls, such as sanding and eng file entries like wheelslip.

[dancio]

My musem had a display at a World's Greatest Hobby show this weekend. Part of the display is a couple of simulators. We used Open Rails this weekend with the following hardware:

ASUS P5G41-M LE/CSM Motherboard with 4 Gig of memory & 2ghz Dual Core CPU's.
One machine ran VGA to the monitor. A 2nd used DVI to a Matrox Triple Head connected to three monitors.
All the monitors were ASUS VE228 LED monitors.

1. WHen using the exterior view I can drop the viewpoint below ground level and look at the trains from underneath. They appear to be driving on suspended wires (you can see the rails.
2. Available screen resolutions all have either a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio. I used a Matrox Triple Head and with my hardware, I had a 2400 wide x 600 high resolution (limitations of the onboard video card prevented higher resolutions). I was unable to enter 2400x600 into the Combo Box. I had to override the registry setting and the program works great with the Triple Head configuration. But then I’m unable to change other settings in the program because it loads 2400 x 600 in the settings pages and when I save the settings, the validation sees an invalid resolution and I can’t save the settings.
3. I get very low Frame Rates, between 8 and 19 (with and without the Triple Head). Not sure why, I have 4Gig in one machine and the video has 512MB of memory
4. With a Rail Driver attached, it’s often hard to release the brakes completely (engine brake).
5. When using a Rail Driver I can’t place the reverser in Neutral

[twpol]

1. WHen using the exterior view I can drop the viewpoint below ground level and look at the trains from underneath. They appear to be driving on suspended wires (you can see the rails.
2. Available screen resolutions all have either a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio. I used a Matrox Triple Head and with my hardware, I had a 2400 wide x 600 high resolution (limitations of the onboard video card prevented higher resolutions). I was unable to enter 2400x600 into the Combo Box. I had to override the registry setting and the program works great with the Triple Head configuration. But then I’m unable to change other settings in the program because it loads 2400 x 600 in the settings pages and when I save the settings, the validation sees an invalid resolution and I can’t save the settings.
3. I get very low Frame Rates, between 8 and 19 (with and without the Triple Head). Not sure why, I have 4Gig in one machine and the video has 512MB of memory
4. With a Rail Driver attached, it’s often hard to release the brakes completely (engine brake).
5. When using a Rail Driver I can’t place the reverser in Neutral

1. The first time you do this, it should switch to cab, but we let you switch to external again to override. Preventing underground cameras is on the to-do list.
2. You can use the old menu (Switch Menu Style) instead but hopefully this will be fixed for the next release.
3. What graphics card do you have? What were the Process usage values from F5's DEBUG INFORMATION? It might be limited by CPU or GPU but unlikely to be RAM.
4. Not sure about this, but we can investigate.
5. OR doesn't support neutral yet.

[longiron]

I'm also noticing lots of errors with Dwight Mitchell's cabviews complaining about undefidined or duplicate controls, such as sanding and eng file entries like wheelslip.

We have yet to implement all the CAB controls/gauges/etc for MSTS. Those "warnings" in the log file are just a way of reminding ourselves of what is yet to be done.