The news of some dlc's from trainsimulations.net

[Unoriginal]

Lack of transparency is what causes that trust to lost. If it happened once, it’s likely to happen again. Even if TS is the last major content producer, that shouldn’t mean they should be exempt from criticism. I’ll still hold high respect for the guys but this whole thing has been a big blunder.

I myself think this thread has ran its course now. As disappointed as we are all with this decision there isn’t much anyone can do now. I just hope the next time this happens it’ll be better handled.

[CBQSD24]

TL;DR it's not about the age of the addons, it's the lack of communication from providers about removing it that we're upset about. Nobody saw this coming and not everyone uses Discord where this might have been communicated.

I think its been said, but even for those in the discord (like me), we were not told either. Sean (PerryPlatypus) and Andrew (rrdiesel87) were in there and the basic response we got was (and no shame to those two obviously, this isn't on them): "Not even we know what's going to be removed." Which begs the question, what the hell was TSN thinking here? It's absurd enough to not tell your customer base what's being removed, but not even your own developers? I'm told the owner of TSN, "Jason" (Thats what I recall his name is, but I have no idea) doesn't really have any form of social media which I think is.. odd? Now, I really (and I mean this in the most sincere way possible), REALLY do not want so sound like I'm nagging on someone's personal choices here, but I feel like as a business owner, one should be able to communicate these kinds of things to their customer base, and especially their team. It all just strikes me as odd that you wouldn't even let your own developers know what's happening. All in all, I definitely think this whole "lack of communication" aspect goes quite deeper.

With all of that said, I really do not want this to come off as rude, ungrateful, or anything of that sort. I do not want to sound that way towards any of the TSN team. I am forever thankful for what TSN has brought to this community, and I appreciate all of the members behind TSN greatly. As it's been stated before; I, among many others here are simply just confused, frustrated, and quite frankly lost with how this situation played out - and I feel some answers to these questions are in order.

[CBQSD24]

Well, all I know for certain is that it might not be a one time case.

Try to remember SLI/TSN has been one of the most generous of the providers in terms of the community.

They've donated the ORTS starter route and equipment. They have the freeware pack for freight equipment. They offer the most open repaint policy of any payware supplier, and just allowed their scenery objects to be defined (not shared) for freeware routes.

Cut 'em some slack. They've already gone above and beyond. Maybe show a little more trust on their short and long term plans, rather than questioning their motives and transparency?

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

Eric, forgive me here but I think you are missing the point we are all making. Nobody here is ungrateful of TSN. We all appreciate their contributions greatly, and will likely continue to support them. That said, just because they have things like a pack of free cars, an open reskin policy, a starter route (etc) - does not mean they are free from criticism. Just because they’ve “hone above and beyond” does not mean they can’t screw up. If I am gonna be honest; a business where I am putting my real, hard earned dollars towards should be very transparent about what is happening with their products. I feel like thats basic decency towards the consumer, and I feel many will agree. You say I’m supposed to trust them, but how am I to do that when they’ve shown they’re clearly willing to wipe products away with no transparency as to what it is? Like I’m sorry, but thats just scummy.

[oper190]

The choices are made by them, that's Business. That said what I feel is lost here, is having a Sale implying somethings will be discontinued, instead I feel it should have been a sale on those items that would be discontinued on date X. Basically I see it as a means to boost sales on those items by causing a panic buy.
The loss for reskinning is of cause an unavoidable consequence, and makes any reskins all that much more useless junk.

[CBQSD24]

The choices are made by them, that's Business. That said what I feel is lost here, is having a Sale implying somethings will be discontinued, instead I feel it should have been a sale on those items that would be discontinued on date X. Basically I see it as a means to boost sales on those items by causing a panic buy.
The loss for reskinning is of cause an unavoidable consequence, and makes any reskins all that much more useless junk.

At the end of the day, yes it is unfortunately business. But like, as you said "I see it as a means to boost sales on those items buy causing a panic buy" - yes exactly. Which, is that not kinda scummy? Especially towards a community which has supported them in and out. I feel like loss of skins isn't entirely unavoidable either as, whats wrong with just reuploading the discontinued stuff as freeware? Like if it's not gonna be sold, why can't we just let the community continue to refine it? I never understood that why these products must be wiped forever. Preserving digital media like that is important.

[yellowdog]

whats wrong with just reuploading the discontinued stuff as freeware? Like if it's not gonna be sold, why can't we just let the community continue to refine it? I never understood that why these products must be wiped forever. Preserving digital media like that is important.

Because then people complain "I just bought that, and now you're making it free?? That's not fair! How do I get a refund?"

In other words, people complain no matter what.

[1peckfordhay]

I think its been said, but even for those in the discord (like me), we were not told either. Sean (PerryPlatypus) and Andrew (rrdiesel87) were in there and the basic response we got was (and no shame to those two obviously, this isn't on them): "Not even we know what's going to be removed." Which begs the question, what the hell was TSN thinking here? It's absurd enough to not tell your customer base what's being removed, but not even your own developers? I'm told the owner of TSN, "Jason" (Thats what I recall his name is, but I have no idea) doesn't really have any form of social media which I think is.. odd? Now, I really (and I mean this in the most sincere way possible), REALLY do not want so sound like I'm nagging on someone's personal choices here, but I feel like as a business owner, one should be able to communicate these kinds of things to their customer base, and especially their team. It all just strikes me as odd that you wouldn't even let your own developers know what's happening. All in all, I definitely think this whole "lack of communication" aspect goes quite deeper.

With all of that said, I really do not want this to come off as rude, ungrateful, or anything of that sort. I do not want to sound that way towards any of the TSN team. I am forever thankful for what TSN has brought to this community, and I appreciate all of the members behind TSN greatly. As it's been stated before; I, among many others here are simply just confused, frustrated, and quite frankly lost with how this situation played out - and I feel some answers to these questions are in order.

I agree, and I do not place blame on Andrew or Sean, sucks that they were left out on this information too. You would think that even if they (TSN) didn't communicate it to us, there would have at least been some notice for the literal 𝘥𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘭𝘰𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘴 of said content. I feel I have communicated my piece on this matter, so I will drop it on my end. Hopefully this can all be addressed going forward.

[CBQSD24]

Because then people complain "I just bought that, and now you're making it free?? That's not fair! How do I get a refund?"

In other words, people complain no matter what.

That actually is a fair point. I do believe you are, unfortunately, correct.

[tarrant75]

Issue has been fixed, new file uploaded. Funnily enough, sent this file out to a few friends years ago, not a single one of them said anything about it, so it's good to know.

[CBQSD24]

I feel I have communicated my piece on this matter, so I will drop it on my end. Hopefully this can all be addressed going forward.

Honestly, I think my multiple paragraphs have echoed what I have wanted to say as well. I don't think there's much more to be said on this matter. All in all, I hope TSN at least sees what we have to say, and maybe going forward, we can gets some answers, and hopefully not a repeat of this disaster. I really do want them to understand that while we all appreciate them dearly, stuff like being not transparent with us all really does not do the community (or TSN themselves) any good.

With that said, I think I as well will drop this topic too, for I have also said my piece.

[eric]

It's absurd enough to not tell your customer base what's being removed, but not even your own developers? I'm told the owner of TSN, "Jason" (Thats what I recall his name is, but I have no idea) doesn't really have any form of social media which I think is.. odd?

Well, your source was.... wrong. He's read every page of this thread, by the way, and has been on these forums for as long as I can remember.

Now, I really (and I mean this in the most sincere way possible), REALLY do not want so sound like I'm nagging on someone's personal choices here, but I feel like as a business owner, one should be able to communicate these kinds of things to their customer base, and especially their team. It all just strikes me as odd that you wouldn't even let your own developers know what's happening. All in all, I definitely think this whole "lack of communication" aspect goes quite deeper.

You do realize this is not a Fortune 500 company you're talking about?.... It's still a side gig. A couple guys who are extremely talented at modeling and monetized their hobby.

With all of that said, I really do not want this to come off as rude, ungrateful, or anything of that sort.

Well.... with all due respect, that's -exactly- how it's coming off. And I'm not singling you out. Several of you have a level of entitlement on this topic that I find really disappointing.

As it's been stated before; I, among many others here are simply just confused, frustrated, and quite frankly lost with how this situation played out - and I feel some answers to these questions are in order.

The answer has been obvious all along: before SLI/TSN has released a new model, the older version gets pulled ahead of time because nobody wants to buy the old model in January and see the new released in March (timeframes entirely for illustration) and have to pay for the new one. Since the devs who built the new models often aren't the ones who did the old model, it's equally not fair to give away the new one.

That said what I feel is lost here, is having a Sale implying somethings will be discontinued, instead I feel it should have been a sale on those items that would be discontinued on date X.

Well, I'm glad their sales are site wide. I don't believe anything I bought this time was discontinued. And honestly, I wouldn't have bought some of those knowing they were being discontinued because that's normally a signal that a replacement is in the works.

Because then people complain "I just bought that, and now you're making it free?? That's not fair! How do I get a refund?"

I just had that same discussion with Jason yesterday, believe it or not. You know... the guy with no presence?


This is far from a disaster, folks. A disaster is shutting down the site with no notice. A disaster is releasing something broken and not fixing it.

[yellowdog]

I just had that same discussion with Jason yesterday, believe it or not. You know... the guy with no presence?


This is far from a disaster, folks. A disaster is shutting down the site with no notice. A disaster is releasing something broken and not fixing it.

Yup. Makes sense to me.

And I also don't get the argument that reskins based on old models are useless, worthless, wasted, etc. As a content creator who has reskins in the file library going back 20+ years (some even of Dilworth's original SD40-2 models), I can happily say that upgrading to new models has never made me feel like my old work was wasted time. People really want to dial it back to those OG models? Cause that's essentially what you're saying.

[amtrak115]

I'm not going to add one way or another to the discussion....I didn't have a problem with their sail...(Yes I bought some stuff)...I do wish however, that TS would, if possible, make available on a very limited basis...a few of their "discontinued" stuff....A perfect example would be "SLI/TS Norfolk Southern Horseshoe Curve Trainset". if they were to make that available for a limited time period....they would have at least one sale....

a quick search using "horseshoe" and "curve" returns 45 or so items. of the first 10 or so, at least half require that trainset....Just saying.....

[CSRX]

Hard to upgrade your repaints to a newer model, when a newer model hasn't been produced. Lol.

[yellowdog]

Lots of modeling programs out there. Otherwise, yup, just gotta wait for someone else to hopefully make what you want.