What's the Secret?

[praynes]

Okay...I've struggled with this long enough!! When using TSRE, how do you properly align Dynamic Track with regular track? They will align side to side, but not up and down. I've looked for a tutorial, but none seems to exist. You guys on the Forum have never let me down. What am I missing here? I'm ready to release my Hoosac Tunnel Route but just need to resolve this issue!!

Paul Raynes

[CSRX]

The secret? Is to move away from Dynamic Track all together. I managed to get it to work properly in TSRE once, Can't remember how now though, but I am glad it makes it difficult to use, hopefully it was meant to help developers get away from over using DT.

I'm going to assume your Hoosac Tunnel route is based in the 1940's like your other B&M based routes? This line is something I always wanted to develop for the modern era. Started to years ago with intentions on releasing via Maple Leaf Tracks, but lost it in a computer hardware failure, and have never bothered to rebuild. Been too busy with the MEC Mountain Division and Eastern Division..

[landnrailroader]

Paul,

While I prefer not to use Dynamic Track, it is not difficult at all to set up in TSRE once I figured out a secret or two. First of all one needs to know the degree of curve which will be indicated on a track chart if you are trying to duplicate the real world. Then you need to know the gradient. DT in TSRE is better than in MSTS in one respect. You can make it bend either direction, left or right, by using, or not using, a minus sign "-" in front of the angle. When you first select DT the first tangent is already there, set at 10 Meters. Now select the first curve (I would recommend only using one curve per piece of DT) and you will see a minimal radius & curve. Okay, on the track chart the curve was labeled either 4.25 degrees, or 4 degree 15 minutes. Using a constant that surveyors use up to about 10 degree cuves divide 1746 meters/4.25 degree = 410.8 meters radius. (or you could divide 1746 by the radius to get degrees).. Now make the DT bend one way or the other by inserting the minus sign. No plus sign needed. Now select the 2nd tangent & it will appear with a minimum length. Now adjust radius, degrees in the curve, and the tangent length to get a fit. Tricky at first by easy once you get the hang of it. I find that the mouse is useless. Use the keyboard to enter the adjustments because you may get down to a hundreth of a meter or degree and the mouse key does not go that low. Sometiimes there is no other way. If I have 3 curved tracks and the only value that is close is 90 meters, then I can lay a 90 meter radius curve but then I have to use dynamic track to get 95 & 100, or 90 & 85 meter curves. So I don't like it, I minimize use of it, but sometimes you have no choice.

Attached is a image at the north (top) end of the tracks that go south from Beckley, WV area down Gulf creek. There are tunnels, at one point 4 layers of track, and Gulf Switch is actually a switchback. Two railroads are here. The lower one is the formere C&O and other is the former Virginian, then NS, and now a shortline. The C&O part was abandoned about 1995 or so. And yes, there are some DT pieces in this spaghetti bowl. gulf_switch_area.jpg See my next message for another trick I think I fixed, at least to my satisfactioni.

Jerry Sullivan

[praynes]

Thanks for your comments Shawn and Jerry. I really appreciate them.

Paul

[pwillard]

I just added these notes to the TSRE Document online

[GokuMK]

If it is one curve track, just use Flex button. Just point to a destination track and it will magically make all the values for you.

[scottb613]

If it is one curve track, just use Flex button. Just point to a destination track and it will magically make all the values for you.

Hi Folks,

Holy Smokes - so I was equally impressed with using the Dynamic Track feature that Goku just outlined above - as I was when I discovered "Auto Paint". Just as he states - place a Dynamic Track section - point and click on the track section you want to join - and presto - - - TSRE makes the connection - making any curve or grade - automatically - with a SINGLE MOUSE CLICK.

Some window pops up - not sure what it's supposed to indicate - but upon closing - the connection is made.

Amazing.

I'm not a track guy - but from posts over the years - it seems "Dynamic Track" on a route is a bad thing.

What are the disadvantages to including Dynamic Track sections in a route?

Regards,
Scott

[eric]

Dynamic Track is far less of a bad thing than it was years ago. It's a nightmare when merging a route, which was the main complaint, but it was also visually incompatible with 3D track systems like USTracks and Scalerail. It stood out like a pink Cadillac when mixed with anything other than XTracks.

With the implementation of the TrProfile.stf file in OpenRails, that last issue largely went away. Arguably, with the new default tracks I've been working on, it's even more of a non-issue.

The bigger issue is the local TSection only able handle so much DT before you start to exceed 16 bit limits, which I'm not sure exist in ORTS but do exist in the last compiled versions of TSRE. If we ever get past the compilation issues, the fix for that is checked in to the repository. Very few routes are ever going to approach that, but there is one route that apparently used DT for just about everything except turnouts, and discovered the limits the hard way...

[scottb613]

Dynamic Track is far less of a bad thing than it was years ago. It's a nightmare when merging a route, which was the main complaint, but it was also visually incompatible with 3D track systems like USTracks and Scalerail. It stood out like a pink Cadillac when mixed with anything other than XTracks.

With the implementation of the TrProfile.stf file in OpenRails, that last issue largely went away. Arguably, with the new default tracks I've been working on, it's even more of a non-issue.

The bigger issue is the local TSection only able handle so much DT before you start to exceed 16 bit limits, which I'm not sure exist in ORTS but do exist in the last compiled versions of TSRE. If we ever get past the compilation issues, the fix for that is checked in to the repository. Very few routes are ever going to approach that, but there is one route that apparently used DT for just about everything except turnouts, and discovered the limits the hard way...

Hi Eric,

Thanks so much for taking the time to explain it.

It seems like it could be a pretty useful tool in the toolbox.
😉

Regards,
Scott

[landnrailroader]

I wasn't aware of the limits to the local Tsection but whenever I release the Virginian route that was started by Simon Van de Laak it may come close. He used a lot of it, mostly in the yard at Mullins, WV. I added just a few when I added in the section from the east end of the Narrows bridge to Roanoke, and from Mullins to DeepWater, WV. I've got to set some things aside and finish the next version of the Knoxville Division which include most of the SR trackage, some of which has been sold or leased to a shortline.

Jerry Sullivan

[eric]

DT has to start at track section 40000, and 65535 is the largest int value allowed, so there are 25535 section values available. Sounds like a lot, but they go quickly and individual curves eat two values each. Realistically, you're limited to around 10000-14000 slots for DT.

It's more of a question for the ORTS team as to whether the limits still exist within the code. The latest version 7.012 can't go above 65535, which is one reason we want to break the compile/deploy riddle.... much older versions of TSRE can apparently go above, but would lose other critical fixes and features.

[CSRX]

Honestly, I wish we could do away with DT. It was always used as a last ditch effort for a lot of route builders, and it just felt sloppy in the end. Then when you wanted to convert over to SR or even USTracks, it became a frustration.

But, what really can I say, I've never released a route to the public.. I just know from the very start of route building, it was best to stay away from it. Then again, with the addition from Xtracks and Mtracks, it rendered the DT more and more useless in my opinion, even though some creators still loved to use it.

When you pay attention to the finer details such as grade changes that are constant, or curve changes within the same curve from long sweeping to tigther and back to long sweeping, there really shouldn't be any room for DT to be used. Hence, why it felt sloppy when I see a route full of it.

[joe_star]

I have slowly been removing dynamic tracks from some routes I work with, whenever I work on those sections of track. My methodology is to simply replace the dynamic track with equal lengths of regular track. For making ends meet, I still use Michael Vones object rotator spreadsheet to first define the curve, then simply fill it in with regular track pieces that fit. Using the nudge rotate feature in TSRE then helps align the ends perfectly together

[eric]

Hopefully you have better luck with nudging than I did. I found that the rotations looked correct, but would often result in a broken vector (an abrupt jump left/right of about 5-8cm) in the TDB between the nudge rotated piece and the snapped piece it was being lined up with.

[landnrailroader]

I experimented with this today and I will refine the instructions a bit and then comment. First I placed the piece of dynamic and it so happened that to make it fit, any rotation was going to be to the right, so when I selected FLEX and then selected the piece to connect to, a really nice curve was generated into space. So I tried again, reversing the start and end pieces and this time the connection was perfect --- almost. The lateral fit was perfect, and the vertical fit was close enough for most, but I am PICKY. So on close examination, there was a noticeable vertical offset of about 1/4 the height of the rail. I adjusted this by adjusting the gradient, a keyin at a time and got it perfect. Like as it was at first it would not have had a visible blip, or would likely not have caused a disconnect in the vectors, but it could probably be seen as your train moved over it.

Jerry Sullivan