Reviving TSRE...

[eric]

I recently contacted Goku and asked if he'd consider some paid improvements, and he declined.

As much as I've tried to get interest from the Open Rails team over on Elvas, it seems to be getting no traction.

So we'll go the next best route -- a freelance bounty for somebody willing to convert the TSRE code from QT framework to WPF.

Can somebody recommend what the target frameworks should be if someone were to do the conversion? Obviously, I would like this to be editable and maintainable by anyone in the same VS setup used for OpenRails.

As far as finding someone.... I'm going to use freelancer.com or another "quick-hit coding for hire" site to get a quick and dirty version done, but if somebody has a better suggestion for where to solicit for a one-off type paid effort, I'm open to suggestions.

[EldoradoRailroad]

Eric,

A couple of times I looked at what Piotr (Goku) uploaded to Github. I keep on asking myself, does this code even compile in the form it has been uploaded? As you may know already QT is a more Linux centric platform and thus the reason why the output is OpenGL.

The only way to test if this code on Github is viable is to compile it and hope whatever gets compiled/linked actually works. Otherwise the programmer we might hire will waste time and money just getting the thing to work in its present form, if at all.

Most of my time is spent in linux distros of one kind or another, not always x86 either. I am loathe to set up a test machine with all the required software installs to get TSRE to compile without more information. It would be nice if Piotr could provide a VERY DETAILED description of the setup he used to do this work, and I mean everything! I think that is the first step in this quest. Additionally, he would have to provide what steps he took to compile/link the code he uploaded. A simple "makefile" is rather bereft of being assured that somehow the blessed thing will actually work.

The better Linux projects I have seen on Github etc are more explicit on how to achieve a binary output for a given platform. Something most developers HATE to do is provide GOOD documentation. Stuff that I write often has that problem, but only if it stays out of the public eye.

Steve

[TrainSimJack]

Eric I applaud your enthusiasm!

Thoughts/questions:

I believe Goku's solution was written in C++, and openrails written in C# - is that correct?

You mentioned wanting to replace QT with another library, Is the thought to leave the rest of the C++ code in tact, or is the assumption that the whole app be re-written in C#?

QT is a pretty common library, what is the reason for wanting to replace QT specifically?

[TrainSimJack]

I recently contacted Goku and asked if he'd consider some paid improvements, and he declined.

One thought here, - the idea of coding in something, and having a deliverable you're on the hook for, isn't super appealing to most people.

BUT....

Being a consultant, on the hook for nothing, that's actually a pretty fun gig.

You could ask him, if he'd be willing to be a Non-programming consultant to your project, and offer him any title he wants to add to his CV - could be manager, architect, etc.

He could be hugely valuable as Steve mentioned, just by helping someone else figure out how to compile the project and maybe having a small discussion about it - the kind of discussion you might have at a bar if you met someone who expressed interest.

Hopefully you get the idea - Piotr doesn't want to code, I don't blame him. But he might still want to help.

For me, if you said, hey I'll pay you 20k to replace QT - no thanks.
But if you said, I'll pay you $100/hr to get on a call and answer some questions we have- I don't have to prepare anything, there's no deliverable, and when I'm done there's no homework - Sure, I'll do that all day every day!

[eric]

Goku won't even help people asking in his own forum -- he's telling them to recompile it with their own changes, so no, I don't think being a consultant is an option.

Steve, Piotr did write it with the intent of it being able to be run on Linux as a standalone simulator, which is why he chose QT.

There are some "instructions" buried within the forums here and on ET for how to make a new build, but while several have tried, nobody's been able to get it to compile or run in debug.

https://www.elvastower.com/forums/in...ost__p__207252
https://www.elvastower.com/forums/in...ost__p__211682

The code in GitHub does look correct as far as the logic.

[pwillard]

Goku also said... "sorry, I think comments in code are a waste of time... " So we have very little information that can put us into Goku's mindset at this point with him also insinuating that we only need to "just read the code".

[ngc427]

Reviving? I'm not a coder by any means (maybe simple block coding like Scratch), but I haven't found any issues with TSRE5 at all when it comes to compatibility. Not sure if that means that the language its built off of is unsustainable, but at least for the short term it's not dead.

The GitHub build being uncompileable, as well as Goku's non-helpful attitude, paints a pretty clear picture that he's not one for community support whatsoever, so I feel like its not that big of a loss to dump him and the software eventually considering the player-developed nature of the sim its built for. I feel like it would be better to create something wholly open source from the get-go, to prevent another situation like this, not to mention it would be properly community contributed as well.

[pwillard]

There doesn't seem to be anybody on the ORTS team willing to take on the work Piotr did with TSRE so it could be added to open rails suite. And yes, Open Rails needs a Route Builder tool so it should have always been on their radar, regardless of Piotr's work.

QT is just a GUI tool... a cross-platform application framework that helps developers create applications with graphical user interfaces (GUIs) using C++.

C++ is not substantially different from C#, to be fair and it was once true that C++ was the right choice for a non-Windows environment but that is less true over time.

I would also point out that the QT GUI interface, as created by Piotr, was also a bit lacking in some areas... for example, there are MODAL STATES with no MODAL feedback so you would not know which state you are in at any given moment. So room for improvement, even in some basic things. (Which is why we would like to be able to at least compile the code supplied)

[TrainSimJack]

Hey by the way, that post at Elvas is the #1 reason image attachments should never be pruned even after a lot of time has passed, there's a wealth of information in the screenshot he posted.image.png

[EldoradoRailroad]

Goku won't even help people asking in his own forum -- he's telling them to recompile it with their own changes, so no, I don't think being a consultant is an option.

Steve, Piotr did write it with the intent of it being able to be run on Linux as a standalone simulator, which is why he chose QT.

Which leads me back to what I wrote.

I am willing to "take a leap of faith" and suggest this was done on a Linux distro/setup and then possible cross compiled to work in an x86/amd64 Windows environment.

The fact that Carlo could not get his development port to work in Win10 speaks volumes.

Piotr never indicated EXACTLY what distro/setup he used in Linux to output an executable binary. Nor was it clear what Windows version was used to produce an executable.

Without that on hand, compiling is a non re-producible exercise. There is no way of knowing whether the code on Github is not "window dressing". Effectively, the TSRExx.exe executable is a proprietary release, and whatever GPL code that is on Github could just be a rabbit hole. Each individual piece of source might have some value, but you cannot create the whole from it. I think the key is to get it to compile/link and produce a working binary under Linux, first. Porting to windows is the next step after that. But alas, what was EXACTLY Piotr's setup in 2016, that is 7 + years ago!?

Steve

[EldoradoRailroad]

Hey by the way, that post at Elvas is the #1 reason image attachments should never be pruned even after a lot of time has passed, there's a wealth of information in the screenshot he posted.image.png

Not really, this is a screenshot from Netbeans. What version of NetBeans is being used here is but a 100 questions that come up from this. Some other Netbeans projects I have worked with were NOT backwards compatible. You needed a very specific Netbeans version to do any initial work.

[TrainSimJack]

Hi Eldorado,

My argument about the screenshot was that all screenshots have value.

When we're on a wild goose chase like trying to get this code compiled, screenshots like this one can be priceless.

A while back there was some discussion here and on Elvas about purging old screenshots to save space.

So that's what that was about.

- Jack

[eric]

Just a point of order there. The only discussion we had here on getting rid of screenshots was related to the screenshot forum itself. We don't need 20-year-old pictures of trains on a route.

Screenshots within troubleshooting threads have always been sacrosanct. It's a big reason why I chose to upgrade the forum software versus replace it.

[BrandonS261]

I like this idea Eric and thank you for starting this forum!

I have also been trying to push the ORMT to start focusing on other aspects of OR but they don't seem to want to budge at all and only focus on physics and what THEY want to work on even after many people have been asking for these changes for years! Sure it may be because no one know how to even start with an editor or want to attempt it but they could at least let us know that so we could look at other options! If we could get better graphics, smoke for steam locomotives, a new consist, activities and route editor I believe many more of us would be happy with Open Rails. If they are not considered soon I fear OR will end up just becoming another dead end project.

I am not trying to knock the ORMT or the coders for what they have done so far I am just trying to open others eyes to the situation we are in.

It is also unfortunate that Goku also had a falling out with the ORMT and that he no longer wants to work on TSRE any more but I guess it is what we have been dealt with!

Brandon

[TrainSimJack]

I have a vague recollection of it Eric, I thought it was discussed at one point by both forums.
Your approach is great - a forum mostly for pictures of trains probably can be truncated with minimal community loss.