Clinchfield Railroad

[landnrailroader]

Colleagues,

As many of you know, one of my first routes was the Kingsport Sub. of CSX, former Clinchfield RR between Elkhorn City, KY and Erwin, TN. Then I did the Blue Ridge Sub. which ran from Erwin to Spartanburg, SC. It has been a popular route over the years and another simmer did part of it really early on and I believe that was done on TRAINZ or one of the other simulators. However, those early routes were done before X-tracks, M-tracks, and certainly Eric's A-tracks, so about a year ago, I started piddling with a new pair of these routes brought up to my current standard and using available track. This pair, I plan to release eventually as complete routes, although others may want to super-detail them and that is fine with me. Things have improved, and now we know how to letter the control point names etc. on bungalows, crossing names, and such, and we have a set of very good tunnel liners that can be used with any degree of curve although they do not mix well with tunnel track, so they must be used on all of a tunnel if it has curve and tangent in it. In the original route, I ended the track about 4 miles north of Elkhorn City although I did include 3, now abandoned C&O branches. Early on the division point remained at Elkhorn City but several years ago, it was moved to Shelby yard, about 25 miles north of Elkhorn City. I may add that change if my old XP machine does not die first.

I'm working from track charts of 2014 which do not show a lot of grade changes, and in one case, the grade is shown as constant (.35%) for 3 miles. Lots of 10 degree curves and oh yeah, 50 some tunnels. I'll add to this thread as I progress. I will be including the abandoned coal branches such as the Haysi line. Track is still in place but hard to find in the weeds in spots.

Jerry Sullivan

[yellowdog]

I have track charts from different years, if anything would be of use to you. Although I imagine you may have them as well since your prior versions pre-date 2014.

[NW 2156]

Jerry,

I'm hoping for the following,

Nora Spur

• Mainline Mile Post: 26.6
• Built: 1925, Abandoned in the 1930’s
• Clinchfield Acquired and rebuilt it in 1943
• Operated: 1943 – ?
• Length: 6.3 Miles
• Track: Up to 3.3% grade
• Tipples: Wohlford, Lamberts, Open Fork 1, Open Fork 2, Big Rock, Kilgore Creek, and Blue Diamond
• Cars Per Day: Up to 70 cars
• Clinchfield Train: Nora Turn

Neece Creek Spur (Branch of the Nora Spur)

• Nora Spur Mile Post: 2.2
• Length: 2.4 Miles
• Operated: ? – ?

There was a pretty good cab ride video of this spur on youtube. But I see it's long gone now.

An interesting fact about this spur is Clinchfield Coal 014, ex-Clinchfield RR 821 was abandoned along this line and rescued about 1996. https://www.facebook.com/groups/CSXp...2444761956640/ Possibly was a EMD switcher abandoned along with the F unit. If anyone has any details? I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Robert

[yellowdog]

I just went back and looked at my Track Profiles. I have three.

The first is originally dated June 30, 1917 (2 years after the final spike was driven). This profile is 39 pages long and just covers the portion of the line that existed in the state of Tennessee (MP ~87 - 143). I don't know why it only covers TN, but from other markings in the document I would guess it was document that was specifically filed in a State office for Tennessee records. The format is more like a map of the line, and the POV is top-down/bird's eye with a smaller schematic insert. Here's a sample page featuring Erwin Yard

crr_1917.jpg

I have a 2nd profile dated June 1950, with revisions of same dated '51, '52, '53, '55, '56, 7/2/62, 12/31/63, and 1/20/66. This profile is 82 pages long and is a complete profile of the entire line (Elkhorn City, KY to Spartanburg, SC--with spurs). Notable events during this period include all steamers being retired from the Clinchfield in 1953 (except the "1 Spot"), passenger services ending in 1955, and the completion of the Spartanburg Tunnel '63. This profile also includes the original trackage through Johnson City (the "High Line" was not completed until '70). The format is more schematic-style.
Here's a sample page, also featuring Erwin Yard

crr_1966.jpg

The 3rd/final profile that I have is dated 1982 and is also the complete line (Elkhorn City, KY to Spartanburg, SC--with spurs). The Clinchfield lasted until 1983, so this would have been the final version of the line as the Clinchfield. This profile is 96 pages long. It's also schematic style, but more detailed than the 1950-1966 version.
Here's a sample page
crr_1982.jpg

[yellowdog]

There was a pretty good cab ride video of this spur on youtube. But I see it's long gone now.

An interesting fact about this spur is Clinchfield Coal 014, ex-Clinchfield RR 821 was abandoned along this line and rescued about 1996. https://www.facebook.com/groups/CSXp...2444761956640/ Possibly was a EMD switcher abandoned along with the F unit. If anyone has any details? I'd be interested in hearing about them.

Robert

Bob Loehne's CSX Hotshots videos. I have them and you can still find them for sale. But I found the south end one on youtube here (can't find the north end version that I believe features the B unit you reference):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AipFWqHJ-yw

It gave me an error when I first loaded it, but a refresh got it working just fine. I'm pretty sure I also have some stuff on that B unit--I'll look to see what I have.

[yellowdog]

Whoops, never mind. I thought you were referencing Haysi Railroad #1

[landnrailroader]

Colleagues,

The local Internet went down just before midnight last night (COMCAST) and did not come back up until about 4pm. The cause was said to be network damage which usually means some errant vehicle took down some major part or hit a pole carrying the optical cable.

So I busied myself with laying track on the version 2 Kingsport Sub. Tomorrow it is time to put together the income tax stuff so that I can take it to my accountant when the last 1099 arrives, usually around Feb. 20. I am still disappointed in the way that TSRE renders cuts & fills. The best I have come with is 1-5-5-9 top to bottom but that still creates too shallow an angle for a rock face, and two wide a bottom or top for a right of way. Maybe somebody smarter than me can come up with a subroutine that shapes cuts and fills the way MSTS did it, which while not perfect, was in my opinion far superior to TSRE. Anyway, here is what is seen at the south end of Tunnel #2, or StateLine tunnel which sits between two shelfs about 100 feet above the stream through the Breaks at the KY/VA line. In the first 23 miles, there are originally 18 tunnels. One has been removed of the original group. I am using the 33ft tunnel pieces to cover whatever curve I have, or combination curve & straight if both are in a tunnel. I have found that you can start at one end and place the first piece, then successively select the existing piece, copy the rotation, then select the new piece and paste the rotation. Then further rotate the new piece a little to keep as 33' chords of the curve. We know that degree of curve is determined by measuring 100' chords & swinging the transit 10 degrees for example, for a 10 degree curve. So if we are placing tunnel liner pieces, each one should turn approx. 3 degrees greater than the preceding piece, or negative depending on which way the curve turns. In this way it is not so time consuming and only minor adjustments are needed. Using Eric's "A" tracks, I do lower the floor of the piece a little, so the flat part of the track piece shows, while the shoulders are covered by the floor. In the view facing away from the tunnel note the sharp drop off the track area ahead of where I have shaped the terrain. This terrain was all generated with 1/3 arc-sec data using DEMEX.

Jerry

Stateline02.jpg Stateline01.jpg

[landnrailroader]

Dante, VA was the base in Clinchfield times for several mine runs. There were two branches right in Dante that climbed to the east and norheast to serve several mines. I included these in version 1 (i.e. the one now in the library) and although they are long gone now, I may include them anyway in the 2nd version because of better materials to work with & better ways to locate them. The same is true for the branch at Nora, and the loadout a mile or so south of that junction. Near this last spot was also a short branch to one mine and there is the Haysi Railroad, really just another branch. As far as I know, the big mine near McClure is still in operation but I have read that it is the last one on the former Clinchfield. There was a training mine off of the Nora branch that (I ass/u/me) trained personnel for the big mine. Lastly McClure is remembered for a deady explosion there several years ago.

I had current track charts, but "Yellowdog" sent me two older charts and one of these shows the profiles for most of the branches. That is a big help. As my wife would tell you, I am picky when it comes to track, but then 11 years of running a track geometry inspection car operation on the SR stays in the blood.

And a touch of politics. I would urge all of you to contact your federal representatives and OPPOSE this UP acquision of NS. It will cost the jobs of a great many good men and women and will NOT IMPROVE competition.

Jerry Sullivan

[landnrailroader]

Moving on south, we come to the junction of Clinchfield and N&W a few miles geographically east of St. Paul. The Clinchfield bears off to the left, while the N&W bears off toward the upper right. The N&W had (NS still does) a small yard, which I ass/u/me was for the interchange between the two. The small yard consists of 3 tracks beyond the passing siding which is controlled with this end called "Boody" and the other end "Clinch". Now it appears to be a place to store as many empty hopper cars as it will hold, likewise the Clinchfield (CSX) is doing the same thing at Dante. I did the tracks for the route from Bluefield to this point & then on to Norton, and the Interstate RR beyond there with some Southern thrown in. Kenny Eaton has it and hopefully is fleshing it out. I sent it to him because when he worked as a NS conductor, that area was his territory.

Where what appears to be double track to the lower right of the image, is actually two single track mains, side by side with the left one being CSX. About 1/2 mile off the image, the Clinchfield crosses the N&W by way of 2 point-point #15 turnouts, both controlled by NS. I have these at the correct location, but with a 5M piece between them. In days of old this crossing was a #10 double slip switch (or "puzzle" switch"). These things are a pain in the sensitive areas to maintain and so this double turnout set was instlled at least 50 years ago.

BOODY.jpg
Jerry Sullivan

[landnrailroader]

Friends,

All of the track is in place for the Kingsport Sub., Elkhorn City, KY to Erwin, TN and good progress is being made on adding roads. Things have changed a bit since I was in the area from 1967 to 1978, and then to a L&N Historical Soc. convention in 2003 and the image indicates this. Right on up to now, the road under the railroad bridge (NS Appalachia Sub.) is 4 lanes with some turning lanes here and there that we don't have pieces to replicate. Then about a mile off the image to the lower right, the road used to continue on into Gate City, VA but now it deviates to 4 lane limited access (nearest items to that which we have are Freeeway 4lane/2 pieces) and a remnant of the old road crosses over the railroad via a bridge and then goes into Gate City. Then in the earlier period, when I was responsible for testing the railroad shown in the image ever month, there was a siding just before the curve going to the bridge from the bottom of the image and a turnout just before the bridge with a line going to the left and on to Bristol, VA/TN. That line was abandoned between 1978 and 2003. The community that is just around the curve toward the upper right is (or will be) Weber City, VA and just beyond that is a fairly extensive NS yard referred to as Yuma yard. And a few miles past that is Frisco, TN. I am including the NS between Natural Tunnel (I challenge anyone to replicate that tunnel in TSRE/ORTS - there are many images of it on the net) and a few miles south of Frisco because since 1982, CSX has had rights over NS, and vice-versa in this area so activity creation should be interesting.

Jerry APR_24_26.jpg

[landnrailroader]

Friends,

I have proceeded on with adding roads. From Gate City, VA north to Clinchport, following the Appalachia Div. of NS, there was when I worked for Southern, only a two lane road between these points, but by 2003 when I was there with a L&N historical Soc. group, a new 4-lane limited access highway had been built which is quite straight for most of the way and the old two lane is now access to several home and side roads, many of which cross the NS line at grade (mostly private crossings) or in one case by a tunnel under the track. The new highway follows the path of the old road from just before it crosses the Clinch River (out of image to the right). For a few miles it changes from 4-lane divided to just 4-lane. We do not have road pieces that look like limited access divided roads, so I used the Freeway 4L2 pieces. The center space is about 2x the desired size. From just south of the Clinchfield crossing (road under RR) to just after the Clinch R. crossing, we have the 4l2 non-divided area. Because of tile boundary issues (that may or may not be an issue with TSRE rebuilds) I will continue the non divided style to just after the image.

Now for the image, which I call "Railfan Heaven". When the new road was constructed, the builders were wise enough to put a parking area alongside the river side of the road so folks could safely watch trains, and in 1992 when the UP 4-6-6-4 was re-decorated as a Clinchfield engine, hundreds parked at this location, and there were cars alongside the road for nearly a mile. The valley straight ahead is that of Copper Creek. The markers are for a side road from the main highway to this spot and then up the valley. The low track, which crosses the creek on a couple of plate girder spans is NS, while the high track will cross on the impressive Copper Creek viaduct. I can reuse the one I did for version one, which is accurate, or I may create a new one. I've rode across the lower track, left to right, more than 100 times doing track inspection and measuring dynamics of coal cars, while I worked for the Southern Rwy., 1965-1978.

Jerry Sullivan RAILFAN_HEAVEN.jpg

[landnrailroader]

Friends,

I have reached the end (for now) of US-58/23 which was in the days I worked in the area a busy 2-lane road but is now a 4 lane limited access. Again, I used freeway pieces to make the road but some with about 1/2 the center area would have been more correct. The end (for now) is above and just past the village of Glenita, VA. You can look this up on Google Earth so to save expensive disk space, I won't attach an image. Around 1968 or so, there was a bad derailment at this community but as it was a loaded unit coal train, there was no hazardous material spilled or such. However, why did it happen. It fell to me to determine the cause. This was still jointed rail territory and it was a no-brainer to me, graduate electrical engineer that I was. If you treat a harmonic sway of coal cars the same way you would consider what happens when a PA system squeals in your church, then, AH HA, resonance. And so it was. Mechanical changes ($1500 each) were applied to the coal cars in the form of hydraulic snubbers (shock obsorbers on your car) and center plate extension pads, reduced, but did not eliminate the possibility. The ultimate solution was welded rail but that was a few years in the future, so engineers were told not to remain in the 12-15mph speed range anymore than absolutely necessary.

There is a road that leads from US-58/23 down into the village and not long after that derailment, there was another INSIDE the Natural Tunnel. I have challenged anyone to create a reasonable facsimile of this tunnel after I release this route and the challenge is that it is on a reverse curve of Stock Creek and the natural portal at the geographically north end has been enlarged over the years to improve clearances, and the interior curve has been eased from 19 degrees to 16 degrees, and the south portal is nearly 100 feet tall and 200 feet wife, and of course the "lining" is natural limestone, rather dark in color thanls to more than 60 years of steam locomotives passing. Again, we had to find out what caused this derailment and as the speed limit through the tunnel is quite slow, harmonic motion was not likely, and it was noticed that the rail appeared to have been uprooted and turned over by lateral forces. So, glue some strain gauges on the rail and find out. Well we did and of course our instruments had to be close at hand, and us as well. So folks, that is a BIG tunnel, but it gets real CROWDED when a train goes through it. In order to get our equipment to the tunnel, we drove to Glenita, and put the equipment on a push cart and manually pushed it up the track about a mile to the tunnel from Glenita.

When I think back to the crew that I was with. Our boss was in charge and there was me and two others. Now all the others are gone from this life but at 87 I am still piddling along.

Jerry

[landnrailroader]

More Roads,

There is a state highway that more or less parllels the Clinchfield from Clinchport to Dungannon and I have put that in. Then there is a gap of several miles except for road into Carfax where there is a Defect Detector. Then a little private road crosses the tracks a few miles further north from there and then nothing until St. Paul. I included several, but not all, roads at St. Paul, and then there is a state highway that again more or less parallels the railroad to Dante, VA. At Dante, the yard is currently dead, with some tracks removed, but I have done it as close as possible to 1955 or so incuding the mine runs up two creeks from Dante that show on early 1950s topo maps, but were probably abandoned by then or earlier. I digitized off the topo maps which is at best "passable" and then tweaked the digitizing to what seemed reasonable. The highway extends up one holler and then goes over Sandy Ridge in an area not covered in this route. It reappears near the north end of Sandy Ridge tunnel at Trammel, VA which where the Clinchfield as we know it was finished in 1915. A few miles further along this highway, we come to Wakenva, VA and here another road splits off and climbs a 9% grade up, then loops back at 2% and finally crosses the railroad and then drops down into a valley which once contained a coal mine. This is included. It is a paved road but has no center or edge lines. We don't have road pieces like that so I used the cr2 series and to make the U turn correctly we would need a 180 degree turn with about 8 meter radii, so I did it with what we have. Toward the top of the image there is a siding and this was the location of a flood loader named Wakenva. The track to the top right goes to the long abandoned mine in the valley. The valley is called Wakenva Holler.

Jerry WAKENVA_JCT.png

[yellowdog]

Your description reminded me of a Frograil tour I submitted many years ago:

https://frograil.com/tours/csx/clinchfieldNorth.php

(and South https://frograil.com/tours/csx/clinchfieldSouth.php)

[landnrailroader]

On the subject of digitizing and track laying. There were comments elsewhere about difficulty laying track. I have not experienced any of that but I did come up with a way to start laying a road or track. With the terrain visible so you don't deep 6 your track piece, lay it with a datapoint at the base of a digitized point, i.e. one of the "flags". Then use the "R" key and the mouse to rotate the piece laterally to line up with another "flag" as close as possible. Then use the rotation portion of the Transform tool and change the rotation by small increments until you get as precise an alignment as you are comfortable with. Then attach another piece of track temporarily to the starting end of this first piece, to lock it's later position and then use the gradient too to set the grade. After that, what was said in the other post is correct.

When digitizing, besure to do all your track and road marking on the same date of the aerial image. Typically, this works well although there are always some spots that are hidden by vegetation or shadows and for those it is just an educated guess. I find that the image may shift 50 feet, sometimes more, sometimes less from one date to another. I guess that the aerials used in Google Earth were not intended for things as precise as we need, just for hiking & biking & such. When available it is also helpful to shift to the ground view.

Jerry