Cumbres & Toltec Scenic RR

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  • landnrailroader
    4000 Post Veteran



    • Nov 1999
    • 4171
    • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    • ORTS

    #31
    As we continue east, there is a nearly perfect horseshoe curve of about 200 degrees, just west of mile 305. (for the curious, Antonito is mile 280+- and Chama is 344+-) If we carefully measure this curve on Google Earth it is approximately a 16 degree curve, 109 meter radius +- and of course we don't have that in either narrow or standard gauge although if we were working in standard, we could use dynamic. When the digitized data is displayed in TSRE, however, the curve is a nearly perfect 90m radius for about 2/3 of it's length, then there is a short tangent, and then a curve of about 150m radius. First I tried to fit a constant 90R curve but then there were parts that were as much as 20 meters off the digitized path. By juggling between 90R, 150R, and a tiny bit of 300R, I could come closer but it just did not look right, so I decided that I would allow small deviations from the digitized path that would result in the beginning (west) and ending (east) tangents being nearly parallel and on the correct path and the curve being continuous with come compound points. The datapoints just below and to the left of the curve are for a forest service road (dirt). At the apex of the horseshoe there is a material yard which can be reached by big dump trucks. Ballast is dumped on the ground here and then a front end loader is used to put it into the ballast dump cars that are used by M/W.

    Jerry 305horseshoe.jpg

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    • landnrailroader
      4000 Post Veteran



      • Nov 1999
      • 4171
      • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
      • ORTS

      #32
      And sometimes you have to cheat a bit. A mile or so further east, there is another 180 degree around curve which also measures 18 degrees but again we don't have that value. Also at this particular spot, the curve is, for the most part, in a deep steep sided (nearly vertical) cut, about 30 feet deep or so. However the digitized path falls well outside of this cut so I adjusted the track to align with the entering & leaving tangents, but otherwise fall at the center of the cut which was generated by DEMEX from 1/3 arc-sec data. Clearances in this cut are tight so we docents always warn the passengers on the open air car about it - so far no lost arms etc. The ladies managing the extra fare cars also warn their passengers. There are 4 or 5 such places on the line. The track at this point is descending on a 1.23% gradient from the top right to the lower right and you can see the digitized path by the markers. The track is submergedd about a meter because as good as USGS data is, there is some rounding of cut bottoms, so this cut is really a meter or so deeper. To do it right, objects will have to be used that form rocky walls on both sides of the track.

      Jerry 305horseshoe_02.jpg

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      • landnrailroader
        4000 Post Veteran



        • Nov 1999
        • 4171
        • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
        • ORTS

        #33
        If there are any doubts about the C&TS having lots of curves, this image should remove them. W.J. Palmer's locating engineers did a great job in holding the westbound grade to about 1.5%. It was thought that the heaviest tonnage would be westbound - how wrong this turned out to be, which is why Chama was an away terminal and a helper station for the entire 88 years that the line operated as a common carrier. In the image shown, Sublette is at the upper right where the terrain has a "V" dip and the track is straight for a couple hundred meters.
        The railroad followed the contour intervals and in this image, the maximum sharp curve is about 18 degrees, and the maximum grade is 1.5%. As the crow flies it is about 2.5 miles from the track near the bottom to Sublette, but by the railroad it is almost 8 miles. Distance is increased to lower the grade. I know that perhaps 2 miles west of Sublette, one can clearly see Big Horn peak (another dormant volcano) and it is only 4 miles or so distant, but on the museum train it will take more than 40 minutes to get there, including a short stop at Sublette to cool the brakes. And there will be several tight horseshoe curves in the process too.

        Jerry

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        • landnrailroader
          4000 Post Veteran



          • Nov 1999
          • 4171
          • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
          • ORTS

          #34
          The next really neat engineering spot on the C&TS is the Whiplash curve, actually a series of curves. The railroad had proceeded up a small canyon to a point where a substantial gain in elevation was required to reach the top of a mesa and then continue west toward BigHorn and Sublette, names which may or may not have existed in 1880. So on a continuous 1.16% gradient for the first part of the curve and 1.24 for the rest, the railroad doubles back on itself twice in gaining approx. 122 feet. This curve is similar, but larger in area, to Tanglefoot curve near Cumbres Pass. So our 1880 drone (buzzard) is looking down on this bowl of spaghetti. Although the view is spectacular, especially on the top level, persons on a eastbound train near the upper left of the image can usually see the middle level which looks like a ramp in the distance. As the train approaches a point just above the lower curve, it become apparent that this really is a ramp on the middle level. Looking north on the upper level, one can see a really impressive sight of a valley that feeds into the Conejos valley and when working as a docent, I point out that the bus, returning us to Chama, will be on the other side of the visible ridge. Then on days with good visiblity, most days i.e., I point to the northeast and the tall mountain with snow on top is Mt. Blanca, one of the several peaks above 14,000 feet in Colorado. It is part of the Sangre de Christo range and lies just north of La Veta pass which is used by the railroad and US-160. However, this is not the original pass of that name. And finally to the southeast or lower right, the C&TS meanders on toward Lava Tank at which point it will turn more or less north and continue to Antonito which is about 15 miles away at this point.

          Jerry WHIPLASH01.jpg

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          • landnrailroader
            4000 Post Veteran



            • Nov 1999
            • 4171
            • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
            • ORTS

            #35
            The track gang has moved on now and has laid the semi-loop at the top of a mesa some 10 miles south of Antonito. Later a connection was made so that this is now a turning loop that the D&RG used to turn snow plows or M/W trains. When you ride the C&TS, there is usually some item of track equipment, or a water car, parked on the connecting track which has a grade of 4%. Eastbound trains enter the loop at the lower right and proceed counter-clockwise on a descendinig 1.1% grade before exiting toward the upper right. Between here and Antonito there are no more significant engineering items but there is Hangman's (or Ferguson's) trestle, about 4 mile southwest of Antonito. We do not know exactly what Ferguson did, but it was serious enough to warrant death by hanging. Problem was the county had no gallows, so it was suggested that he be hung at this trestle. Problem was that it was not high enough, so a locomotive was stopped on the trestle and the perp was hung from the locomotive. It has been suggested that he might have been a horse thief and in the days of 1890 or so that would have been punishable by death, one way or another.

            Jerry LAVA_LOOP.jpg

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            • landnrailroader
              4000 Post Veteran



              • Nov 1999
              • 4171
              • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
              • ORTS

              #36
              The track crew made good progress across the high desert, south of Antonito and arrived in time to complete the turning loop and yard as it exists today. The drone (buzzard) got real confused when he saw this short track that is not connected to anything. Well that is a display track which has some odds and ends on it and at one end there is a dual gauge turnout (in the real world) which was found in an industrial area of Alamosa several years ago and transplanted by the "Friends" to the Antonito yard. Immediately next to the display track are the engine service/storage tracks and when one arrives in Antonio from Chama, the train generally traverses the loop counter-clockwise. On my two recent trips (9/26 & 9/28) the restored 4-6-0 from Colorado Springs (leased to the C&TS for several years) was present. On the 28th, the new diesel was there as well after returning light from Osier. I may have explained it but on 9/28 on of the 480's was still being poked at in Chama after breaking a spring hanger, and two engines were required to pull an oversize, fully loaded, train with caboose charter up to Cumbres. So on arrival at Cumbres, the helper cut off and ran light to Osier where it turned and waited for the train from Antonito. The diesel brought in the train from Antonito and then turned and ran light back to Antonito while the turned helper became the WB road engine for the rest of the trip.

              The tracks at the bottom left go to the car repair facilities, while the one track leading down toward the bottom of the view is apparently a place to store equipment that is under repair or restoration.

              Jerry ANTONITO_YD01.jpg

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