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  • Coonskin
    3000 Post Veteran

    • Aug 2002
    • 3226
    • Poteau, OK, USA.

    #61
    WHAT A RIDE!!

    (This essay is going to include some technical stuff, but it may be very helpful to those of you that have a route that is giving you tdb issues.)

    So I got ALL the bridges and cribbing and forestation in at Capitol City, and far enough past Capitol City so the scenery just doesn't "end" at the edge of town. (In actuality, Capitol City is divided by a tile boundary, so I was going to have to proceed onward anyway!)

    That done, I wanted to attend to a few track arrangement things that had been bugging me in other portions of the route that contain scenery. Namely the helper station and station location I created for Chattanooga. It was too far from the actual town. Hm. Think I'll move the station, pass track, and spur, closer to where the actual location of the Chattanooga settlement (so the spur to the town looked more like it should.) I would then take the former Chattanooga location, reduce the scope of it, rearrange the track and structure elements, and rename the simplified version simply: "Helper". Helper would then have only small depot/crew shanty, a northbound trailing point connection that fans out into two spur tracks: One for the small engine house, the other to the turntable/coal. The turntable track also contained a hidden turning/reversing loop for the non-functional turntables of MSTS. (By the way, I actually think this little "Helper" location is probably redundant, likely the helpers would be in place leaving Silverton, for there's stiff grades to even GET to the little "Helper" location, but I'll try it for now.)

    Anyway, as I was mucking about rearranging the track, I discovered a red pole (switch node) that would not disappear when the track piece was deleted. Hm, that ain't good. Time to back out without saving and try again.

    That I did... only to discover that now the route would not load in either RE or AE!!

    Then the sickening reality hit me: My last backup zip was made upon the bridges/cribbing arriving AT Capitol City... nearly two days ago. I had two days of work that WOULD be lost if I have to revert to a back up!

    Panic hit... then that sick feeling in my stomach.

    Okay, think son, think. You've been here before. Worst case scenario is a manual rebuild. However, that's a last gasp path. For now, how should I proceed trying to salvage two days of intense tedium?

    First thing was to try an automated tdb rebuild. I began by removing the tdb, rdb, tit, and rit files from the route, as well as delete the bk files for same.

    The files removed, as I expected, the route would now open in RE. This at least meant a manual rebuild is on the table if needed, and doing so would get me back in business, but those, too, are VERY time consuming and tedious, and it is WAY too easy to miss a tiny piece of track and thus have a blue pole issue because of an inactivated track shape. A missed track piece can deal you fits as you go about running a train on the route only to discover you missed an itty biddy .025m piece of track! (You discover as your train tumbles down the side of a cliff! LOL!)

    So, with the necessary files removed, it was time to attempt an automated tdb rebuild. That I did. As the camera whipped about, a window popped up about a track piece with an interactive object attached and did I want to delete and proceed or ignore and proceed? Crapadap. I forgot about my 6m-9m track pieces off to the side of the track with a siding object thereon with the name of the place! Anyway, I clicked no and the camera resumed whizzing about here and there, only to suddenly freeze with the dreaded "vector" issue warning. Crapadap number 2.

    Jotting down the lat/lon information, I again went back into RE sans needed tdb/etc files, and hit the lat/lon figures RE had provided. It placed me directly over a 150r 1d piece. With no track data base in place, the track had no wires above (which indicates track continuity). SO, with no tdb, in place, I was able to select the offending piece, and delete it, which obviously left a gap. I then saved and exited.

    With that, I tried another automated tdb rebuild, and this time the wonderful little window popped up with "All Tiles Visited". Well, THAT is encouraging!

    Much to my delight, the route opened in both AE and RE. Once in RE, it was time to do a flyover of ALL track to check for any "Rouge Blue Poles" On my way again, the window again popped up: "Track piece has missing Track Object attached. Delete: Yes or no? Save to make final". This time, I told RE to delete the offending track object, saving after each deleting. This was repeated each time the camera started to enter another tile, I continued to delete and save until there were NO track objects left. First flyover accomplished.

    Now it was time to go back into RE, and replace that 150r 1d track piece so the main line would again be contiguous. I went to the lat/lon location and reinstalled a 150r 1d piece that to replace the one I had removed. (The piece that was removed that allowed the tdb to rebuild.) As expected, once I installed the 150r 1d piece, RE saved without issue and the overhead tdb wire showed continuity. That done, I saved and exited.

    FWIW, almost all of my very complex routes have one or two "pressure points" that will prevent a successful automated tdb rebuild. I've learned to jot down the lat/lon of the piece, as well as a description of the track piece, AND gradient factor. Such a "pressure point" track piece (or pieces) MUST be removed before using the automated tdb feature and replaced once a rebuild is successfully completed.

    So, the above track piece reinstalled without incident, it was now time to reopen the route in RE, and starting at Silverton, do a flyover over the entire route checking ALL tracks for "Rouge Blue Poles" that CAN be introduced in a complex route. (There are several "gotcha's" that can produce these "Rogue Blue Pole's", but IMHO, connected reversing/turning loops are the worst offenders in MSTS.)

    Anyway, I was just about done with the flyover when, Crapadap No 3: There sat a "Rouge Blue Pole" on the branch line to Fall Creek. "Rouge Blue Poles", or RBP's, are sometimes created when trying to do an automated tdb and it indicates a pressure point, but one that wasn't violent enough to cause RE to gag. Anyway, I noted the piece and location, then went back and once again removed the tdb and associated files, hopped back over to the location, and removed that piece of track, saved, then exited, then hopped over to the OTHER pressure point (the 150r 1d piece) and removed IT, then saved and exited RE.

    It as now time for ANOTHER automated rebuild. This time, no pop up warnings/nothing, only the "All Tiles Visited" ending that is typically good, but doesn't mean things are well just yet!

    With that, I again reopened RE, went over and replaced the two pressure point track pieces, saved, exited, then reopened, and beginning at Silverton, did another flyover. This time, there were NO RPB's or any such issues.

    WHEW! I've finally got this thing healthy again!

    LESSONS RELEARNED:

    * Make backups OFTEN. In this case, I KNOW what I did that created the problem: I was editing over at a location containing a turning/reversing loop that was CONNECTED and thus active. In the process, with my clicking and putzing, I created an issue for RE and the tdb. What I SHOULD have done, is once I reached my goal in bridge/cribbing placement and forestation, I should have RIGHT THEN created a back up zip and THEN started tampering with track again. Plus, before starting to edit at the turning/reversing loop location, I wouldn't have had any issue tampering with track IF I had DISCONNECTED the turning/reverse loop BEFORE starting to click, move, delete, mix/match track pieces etc.

    * Be SURE to keep notes of where "pressure point" track pieces reside on your route, and should you cobble up the track data base in the future and a rebuild is necessary, those "pressure point" pieces MUST be removed before using the automated tdb feature. I keep this and more information on a text file named "ID". ("ID" stands for "Identification".) Therein are notations on the DEMEX dmz files I've used, terrain offsets, "Pressure Point" location data, progress notes, etc, etc. ALL of my later routes now have ID.txt files within their route folder.

    * IF your route has reversing/turning loops, DISCONNECT them by removing a piece from the loop BEFORE you do an automated tdb rebuild. Those can deal the rebuild process a curve it gags at. (What I do is keep them disconnected on the working copy, and only connect them for a save that's to be zipped for sharing, that way they're active on the shared route, I then disconnect them on the working copy if more track work is anticipated.)

    SO, there you have it: I spent an agonizing evening fixing what I had inadvertently screwed up... BUT in so doing, I saved two days of intensely tedious work!

    All fer now!

    Andre
    Andre Ming
    V Scale Creations.com R.I.P

    Comment

    • Coonskin
      3000 Post Veteran

      • Aug 2002
      • 3226
      • Poteau, OK, USA.

      #62
      THE CORRUPTED TDB...

      ...is proving to be a huge time loss.

      I had no idea I had so much going on with this route in the realm of mines, mills and smelters. There are currently about 65 mines, mills, and smelters in place, and still a few more to go. I think it will easily peg out at 70+ mines, mills, and smelters. Then there's the power plants and their need for coal, team tracks at almost all of the town/communities, etc. I think it is safe to say there will nearly 100 individual industries in place spread over the entire route. That's quite a few "Siding" interactive objects to place/name.

      There are SO many places to switch, that I think the variation factor would be ridiculously high.

      The scope of the route better in view, the reality is that I am having to set in and place names at all mines, mills, and smelters, as well as other industries that get rail service so I can create some activities. However, I made a huge dent in that task placing names off/on today/tonight.

      Speaking of names, the vast majority of the mines, mills, and smelters, are using the actual names and at the locations they were "back in the day". However, there are some that I have placed at mine locations that did not have a name on the topo map(s). For those I concocted names that I think are in keeping with the tone of the early 1880s. Some of my own names I've thunk up and using:

      Boy Howdy Mine
      Grubstake Mine
      Fanny Mae Mine
      Majestic Mill
      Black Jack Mine
      Monarch Mine
      Royal Flush Mine
      Dolly Madison Mine
      Golden Girl Mine

      And so it goes. Trouble is, I have about another 1/2 dozen no-name mines/mills still to name, and I'm running out of soap for now!

      Anyway, for some reason I seem to be obsessed with getting this route at least to the point I can create activities for it. That requires all industry spots to be named, and thus I plug away at it! Plus, there's still a HUGE amount of bridge and cribbing that would need to be installed before the entire route could have very fledgling version of "Phase 1" scenery in place, too. However, I'm not tackling that at this point. I want to get the names in place, and then maybe create some Intro activities that will eventually take the player over all the portions of the route. There are two subdivisions and four branches:

      Subs:
      Ouray - Silverton
      Silverton - Lake City

      Branches:

      Fall Creek Branch
      Eureka Branch
      Green Mtn Branch
      San Cristobal Branch

      For the portions of actual railroads I've incorporated into the route, I've adhered pretty closely to any track schematics I have to work with. This would include:

      * The Silverton RR line from north of Ironton to Silverton.

      * The Silverton Northern line from Silverton to Eureka, as well as the line up into Cunningham Gulch.

      The mines/smelters/mills at Silverton are based on prototypes, and a couple years ago I reworked my original freelanced Ouray to better conform to the tracks/industries of the prototype D&RG that served Ouray.

      SO, there's history as well as a big dose of whimsy in the Colorado & San Juan route!

      Okay... all fer tonight.
      Andre Ming
      V Scale Creations.com R.I.P

      Comment

      • Coonskin
        3000 Post Veteran

        • Aug 2002
        • 3226
        • Poteau, OK, USA.

        #63
        MORE RAMBLIN'S....

        So after working my way through the route and placing names, and dropping in some place holding structures at mine locations that needed them, there has ended up being 82 mines/mills/smelters on the entire route. Some of those will require boxcars, others gons, still others both. In other words, just working the ore along the line alone will make for scores of hours of switching activities. It is probably one of the most industry intensive routes I've constructed. Plus, it does this along about the 23 mile route from Ouray to Silverton, the 30+ mile route from Silverton to Lake City, and the four branches. (Each less than three miles in length, I think.) I think the total mileage for the route is somewhere between 60 - 70 miles, but I could be mistaken. Might be less, could be more.

        MY GOAL...

        At this point, my goal is to get the route to a state in which it is fully functional (though not scenically complete) and can host activities. This requires there being place holding structures (at the minimum) where needed, and siding names where needed.

        In addition, I will need to go through the equipment it uses and standardize some aspects, as well as create empty/loaded versions of some of the rolling stock/etc.

        TIME FRAME..

        Who knows? Least of all me. I guess however long my energy and determination hold out during this "fever session". Like I've said, when the fever's been flung on me... I am tireless... but once the fever abates: I'm done with that project for ??? long. It is what it is! LOL!

        In the meantime, I make progress.

        All fer now!

        Andre
        Andre Ming
        V Scale Creations.com R.I.P

        Comment

        • Coonskin
          3000 Post Veteran

          • Aug 2002
          • 3226
          • Poteau, OK, USA.

          #64
          BEEN PIDDLIN' n' DIDDLIN'...

          ...in Route Editor. Got the town of Eureka, Colorado roughed in:

          RE_Eureka_1.jpg

          The above is based on the prototype Eureka of the Silverton Northern RR. I have a photo that shows most of Eureka, and there are 24 boxcars in town at the various industry spots! PLUS, even though all of the spurs are west (map south) connected, given there's only one runaround track, and it's on the outskirts of town, there's nothing easy about the layout of the tracks in regards switching the town.

          AND, you ought to see Red Mountain Town, as well as the Red Mountain Mining District! Prototype switchbacks, steep grades, dead end wyes, etc. There will be A LOT to do on this route.

          I hope I can stay motivated to the point that I can at least get it operationally functional and a beta version uploaded.

          All fer now!

          Andre
          Andre Ming
          V Scale Creations.com R.I.P

          Comment

          • Coonskin
            3000 Post Veteran

            • Aug 2002
            • 3226
            • Poteau, OK, USA.

            #65
            Been quiet of late over here in this thread. Several reasons. First off, I had to again personally deal with the sparse nature of my project routes and pretty much had to make peace once more with that reality. It is what it is.

            Also, I have been involved in scanning/processing over 60 photos from my PRR 19th century book and therewith created a huge thread over at ET of PRR pics from the 1850s - 1880s and shared said pics with those over there that enjoy 19th century railroading.

            Also, going to be creating another mega thread at ET for 19th century pics I have depicting many regions of the USA (and some of Canada, too) that I've collected over the decades. I'm trying to get stuff off my hard drive and out there in cyberland so they can be enjoyed by others.

            In the meantime, for the first time in a couple weeks or so, I spent some time in RE making progress on one of my route projects.

            So, there you have it. All caught up on my doin's and stuff.

            All fer now!

            Andre
            Andre Ming
            V Scale Creations.com R.I.P

            Comment

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