How I remove items lost to infinity

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  • landnrailroader
    4000 Post Veteran



    • Nov 1999
    • 4171
    • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    • ORTS

    #1

    How I remove items lost to infinity

    One annoying feature of TSRE is it's ability to place objects at near negative infinity because of some error on the creator's part. I find that this often happens to me, if I am not real close to the last piece of track, to which I want to attach another. And the annoying thing is that the object is not only placed at a very negative "Y" value, it may also be placed in a distant world file as well. On most systems now, this is not going to affect performance in running a route but the potential is there, especially with older equipment. So here is what I do, and this is what I just finished on the N. Montana line. I brought the route up in Track Viewer which is a add-on built into ORTS. Then I zoomed in until I could see at least 1 world file either side of a path. And then I traced that route and noted any orphan items. For example, world file, -12507/14738 (not correct format, but numbers are correct) contained two items, while 3 other world files had 1 item each and two had items that I recognised as multi-track pieces that I probably used to sculpt terrain under a trestle and so would probably be visible in TSRE and they were, so no adjustment needed for those 2. For the mentioned world file, I opened it in Context editor and scanned through it. Two items had large negative "Y" values, so noting that most of the good items had a "Y" value around 900, I changed the value on those two to 950 which should make the piece be 50 meters above the nominal terrain level. Then I opened the route in TSRE and jumped to that world file. Then I chose to hide the terrain shape and took a look around. Quickly the offenders were spotted floating above the terrain and were deleted. Then save route and close the editor.

    WARNING! BACK UP YOUR ROUTE FIRST IN CASE YOU EDIT THE WRONG ITEM!

    Some additional hints and things that I do. First, when you edit the world file and fine an item with a big negative "Y" value, in the position coordinates, i.e."x y z" Then I found it useful to jot down the values of x & z. Then when you go into TSRE to delete the edited item this makes it easier to locate the item "most of the time" if you jump in TSRE to the world file and the coordinates within the world file. In this jump, "Y" makes no difference. I also found that before editing the world file, it was useful to go to that file in TSRE and determine the height of the terrain. Use this sorta average value plus 50-100 meters when you key in the new "Y" value. In this way, the bad item will float above most terrain. When doing a search for items, I hide the terrain shape and also turnout the compass. I use the Track Viewer tool in ORTS a lot to locate those tiles with "orphan speckles" and also to recheck afterward to be sure I got rid of all I could. I have found that almost all of the orphans can be removed by locating them with the xz values. I did encounter one that showed up iin a world file image but was not in the world file itself or at least it did not have a negative "Y" value. I found it anyway and it turns out that the orphan was at a normal vertical level but still an orphan, so delete. Attached is an image from the text editor and note that of the two items shown, one has a large negative "Y" and the other around 370. So I would believe that the latter is okay, and then change the large negative value to something greater than 370, I used 400. ERROR-loc.png ERROR-loc.png

    Jerry Sullivan
    Attached Files
    Last edited by landnrailroader; 04-08-2025, 06:38.
  • landnrailroader
    4000 Post Veteran



    • Nov 1999
    • 4171
    • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
    • ORTS

    #2
    When cleaning up the Cumberland Valley Div. route, there were at least 100 specks here and there and two of these did not have entrys into the world file they were seen in. What I found was that these two were vectors without shapes, so evidently in that case, a speck shows but nothing is seen in the world file. However, in one case I could see a yellow mark way down low and when I moved far down to look at it, I found it was a vector without a shape, so we know how to fix that and I did. Never could find the other. Another thing I noticed was that a great number, but not all, erroneous entries were either near or at the start of a world file, or near or at the end. Not all, but many. Since a world file is created the first time anything needs to enter it,, I would guess that something lost on another nearby world file, but placed outside of it, would cause a new file to be created and in a number of cases, the only item entered was an erroneous one.
    Now there will be a great temptation when one is in the text editor and finds an erroneous entry, to just delete it, but DO NOT! because to do so would create the dreaded out of synch error between the world file and the track database. All deletes should be done using TSRE.

    Jerry

    Comment

    • scottb613
      2500 Post Veteran


      • Apr 2003
      • 2848
      • Downeast Maine (soon)
      • ORTS

      #3
      Hi Jerry,

      With the latest version of TSRE - with Eric's TDB Rebuild (no interactives) - the rebuild activates all errant track pieces with database entries - - - so - - - I've found it's superb at finding errant track pieces. After the TDB Rebuild - I found dozens of pieces hiding in the existing track ROW - that shouldn't be there. Then - simply use Open Rails - Track Viewer to scan your whole route and you should easily see any far-flung pieces - so you know where to look in TSRE. It also fixes an issue that I've noticed with Dynamic Track - place a piece down - flex it - then at a later point you decide you want to redo it with a different Dynamic Track in the same location - Crash (C'MON - KRASH - auto censor) to Desktop - the TDB Rebuild seems to fix this as well.

      A few Track Vectors seem to get flipped - predominately on Dynamic and Double Track (one side normal - other flipped) - bet these are easily fixed.

      YMMV...


      Regards,
      Scott
      <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

      Comment

      • landnrailroader
        4000 Post Veteran



        • Nov 1999
        • 4171
        • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
        • ORTS

        #4
        Scott,

        I prefer to wait a while before using a new version, so at the moment, I am using V0.8.002 which is also why I have to ask where the new version is, because after some months I have forgotten it. I haven't needed to rebuild anything yet, but eventually the need will arise----.

        Jerry

        Comment

        • scottb613
          2500 Post Veteran


          • Apr 2003
          • 2848
          • Downeast Maine (soon)
          • ORTS

          #5
          Originally posted by landnrailroader
          Scott,

          I prefer to wait a while before using a new version, so at the moment, I am using V0.8.002 which is also why I have to ask where the new version is, because after some months I have forgotten it. I haven't needed to rebuild anything yet, but eventually the need will arise----.

          Jerry
          Hi Jerry,

          Understood.

          I've always been a "bleeding edge" kind of guy - as I like testing new features - LOL - sometimes I pay the price.

          I make lots of backups.

          Eric posts the new versions of TSRE here:
          https://www.trainsim.com/forums/foru...05#post2309451

          Regards,
          Scott


          <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

          Comment

          • landnrailroader
            4000 Post Veteran



            • Nov 1999
            • 4171
            • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
            • ORTS

            #6
            Scott,

            I have 3 external USB drives, all of 2Tb or more, but most recently I bought a 1Tbt external SSD also USB connected. I am currently working on 4 routes but expect to release the Northern Montana soon, incomplete but only lacking the "super details", it will be operational. Every time I am in a route, I copy it to one of the external drives, usually now the SSD. For example I have 20 subfolders under the N_montana top folder and when All 20 are used, the next backup goes to a DVD, and then I start deleting old backups and copying new backups into the cleared folders. Only issue is that apparently with Win-11, even those have recycle bins and when you do a purge of those, if you have forgotten to for a while, it can take an hour or more to purge maybe 100gbt. If you are into blender models, take a look at the Central Montana RR shop building at Denton, MT. Easily seen and measured on Google Earth. If someone creates it and adds it to the route later, or if I get it sooner, it will be fine but of course it did not exist in Milwaukee Rd. days. In the movie "Broken Arrow" there are scenes involving this shortline including some really wild stuff done on a major viaduct - they have 4 or 5 of those. As I am doing the route, it can be operated either as a Milwaukee Rd. route or by reversing a few turnouts, it can be a modern day shortline. There are much better terrain tweakers & detail folks than I, so the basics will be there including mileposts, so activities can be created. I haven't figured that part out in TSRE, so I use Track Viewer to find any anomalys and then correct those.

            Jerry

            Comment

            • eric
              9500 Post Veteran and Administrator



              • Dec 2002
              • 9583
              • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
              • English, SQL
              • General

              #7
              There's a safety net for things falling to infinity in the testing version of TSRE -- it won't allow items to go below -100m from the surface. That's configurable --- you can set deepUnderground to perhaps 550m for a route in Montana where the lowest point in the state is is 555m.

              I'll have the latest testing version 8.005v with the updated TDB Rebuild posted later tonight. The TDB rebuild is only intended for a break-glass type scenario. I would not recommend running it just because it was relatively safe to do so with MSTS.
              If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

              Comment

              • scottb613
                2500 Post Veteran


                • Apr 2003
                • 2848
                • Downeast Maine (soon)
                • ORTS

                #8
                Originally posted by landnrailroader
                Scott,

                I have 3 external USB drives, all of 2Tb or more, but most recently I bought a 1Tbt external SSD also USB connected. I am currently working on 4 routes but expect to release the Northern Montana soon, incomplete but only lacking the "super details", it will be operational. Every time I am in a route, I copy it to one of the external drives, usually now the SSD. For example I have 20 subfolders under the N_montana top folder and when All 20 are used, the next backup goes to a DVD, and then I start deleting old backups and copying new backups into the cleared folders. Only issue is that apparently with Win-11, even those have recycle bins and when you do a purge of those, if you have forgotten to for a while, it can take an hour or more to purge maybe 100gbt. If you are into blender models, take a look at the Central Montana RR shop building at Denton, MT. Easily seen and measured on Google Earth. If someone creates it and adds it to the route later, or if I get it sooner, it will be fine but of course it did not exist in Milwaukee Rd. days. In the movie "Broken Arrow" there are scenes involving this shortline including some really wild stuff done on a major viaduct - they have 4 or 5 of those. As I am doing the route, it can be operated either as a Milwaukee Rd. route or by reversing a few turnouts, it can be a modern day shortline. There are much better terrain tweakers & detail folks than I, so the basics will be there including mileposts, so activities can be created. I haven't figured that part out in TSRE, so I use Track Viewer to find any anomalys and then correct those.

                Jerry
                Hi Jerry,

                Sounds like you have it well in hand.

                I wrote a utility to help with backups - just makes it a simple drag and drop operation - drag your route folder and drop it on the utility - it makes a backup of any folder - in place - and time/date stamps the name. I like the consistency in the names - and with the ease of operation - I find I do more backups. Nothing you can't do by hand - just a convenience - only tested on Win10. This names the backups better - so they appear in chronological order - haven't got around to updating the version in the lib yet.

                Capture.jpg

                File Attached:
                SCObup.zip


                Originally posted by eric
                There's a safety net for things falling to infinity in the testing version of TSRE -- it won't allow items to go below -100m from the surface. That's configurable --- you can set deepUnderground to perhaps 550m for a route in Montana where the lowest point in the state is is 555m.

                I'll have the latest testing version 8.005v with the updated TDB Rebuild posted later tonight. The TDB rebuild is only intended for a break-glass type scenario. I would not recommend running it just because it was relatively safe to do so with MSTS.
                Hi Eric,

                Yep - noticed the hard deck - very helpful.

                I'll keep your advice in mind. The TDB Rebuild did seem to help fix a bunch of issues for me.

                Regards,
                Scott

                <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

                Comment

                • landnrailroader
                  4000 Post Veteran



                  • Nov 1999
                  • 4171
                  • Jacksonville,, FL, USA.
                  • ORTS

                  #9
                  I don't know about this rebuild comment "relatively safe in MSTS". I would only do it as a last resort on either editor.

                  Jerry

                  Comment

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