Double, double toil and trouble... Mesh Work

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  • Erick_Cantu
    Senior Member

    • Jun 2004
    • 1040
    • Brighton, MA 02135
    • General

    #16
    This makes me think of something else that would go a long way. If we're going to be upgrading and enhancing the way that we build routes, then to my mind we really also need to address the elephant in the room, which is:

    MSTS-style terrain textures are inefficient and have no place in 2026.

    I wonder if, with the proper splines and textures created, we could define something like a dynamic track profile for different surfaces like track sub-roadbed, tools in TSRE to draw polygons with a texture applied, and all of the other things that allow other sims, MSFS being the prime example, to draw large and fairly representative swaths of land without terabytes of bespoke terrain textures just because we needed a single grey line to run under the track area. I wonder if the improvements being incorporated into TSRE could eventually incorporate some of these things (and, of course, OR would need to be able to read the data). Even basic things like roads and river beds shouldn't be individual shapes. They should be splines and the tools should be able to define them in a relatively intuitive way so that the sim can read them the same way it reads dynamic track.

    To my mind, these things are some of the major things holding down route developers from being able to work quickly (along with a library of generic objects that looks contemporary instead of the old MSTS assets that look like they were made in 1994 - a project I want to tackle when I have time). Why spend who knows how much time finding the right road pieces and making compromises when you could just draw a spline, pick a road profile, and be done? Similarly, why spend time painting sub-roadbed into gargantuan and space-hogging terrain textures - even with TSRE's tools to assist - when a spline does the same job and doesn't need to generate a new space-wasting texture? You could even have spline profiles with different contours to create berms and the like.

    The days of storage and memory getting cheaper are over because of this AI nonsense. Developers must focus on efficiency again.
    Erick Cantu
    North American V-Scale
    Facebook | Email
    Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little gasoline, deserve neither liberty nor gasoline.

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    • EldoradoRailroad
      Senior Member
      • May 2010
      • 201

      #17
      Originally posted by eric

      James Ross from ORTS did some benchmarking, and saw only negligible hit:
      Well yes....maybe,

      On what was this benchmark done?

      Might depend on what CPU/GPU...PCIe...DDR3,DDR4,DDR5?? The list goes on and on, such as SSD Sata, NVME (see PCIe) etc.

      Steve

      Comment

      • EldoradoRailroad
        Senior Member
        • May 2010
        • 201

        #18
        Originally posted by Erick_Cantu
        The days of storage and memory getting cheaper are over because of this AI nonsense. Developers must focus on efficiency again.
        I am glad you said it, because when all this malarkey started with the great LLM race, that is the first thing that crossed my mind. Unfortunately I have a tendency to keep machines well past the Micro$oft expiry date which means that mostly I sprung for MAX memory when it was "cheaper" before the Great Wave of Flooding the Zone. I picked up some Rpi 5's for what is now a dirt cheap price. I have been toying with putting a local Deepseek LLM version on it, alas BIG(er) NVME's drives are just plain stupid in price these days.

        I am not going to lambaste Scott, bless his heart for using LLMs (and spending his cash) to improve TSRE, nor will you see me brushing aside the idea that improving on memory management in OR should be a thing to do. All this while we sit and rot hoping for GPU's/Memory/Storage to come back down the mountain of greed, avarice, and not to mention grift.

        There is a saying in spanish which translates to: "You can't get any clearer than the rooster's call in the morning".

        Steve

        Comment

        • Erick_Cantu
          Senior Member

          • Jun 2004
          • 1040
          • Brighton, MA 02135
          • General

          #19
          AI and LLMs have their uses and coding is a prime example of where tedious tasks can be automated provided the work is inspected for correctness and function afterwards, like you'd do with any functional QC process. The problem is the tech industry's push to force the technology instead of any real organic growth - that's what's leading to the poaching and hoarding of resources. The actual demand pales in comparison to the artificial demand created by the industry integrating tech that people don't even want into tools that don't need it. I think great work is being done here, and I also think that right now is a golden opportunity for us to reconsider how we build terrain, while we're working on updating the tools.
          Erick Cantu
          North American V-Scale
          Facebook | Email
          Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little gasoline, deserve neither liberty nor gasoline.

          Comment

          • pwillard
            2500 Post Veteran


            • Nov 1999
            • 3019
            • Cumming Ga
            • ORTS

            #20
            Honestly, it's the "pushing LLM's into my everyday job" that's finally making me retire from an IT job I've had since 1982.

            What it doesn't mean is that I won't/don't use AI tools for my own personal stuff... where it makes sense.
            http://www.railsimstuff.com
            Just Blender now, 3DCrafter only when I have to.
            Formerly The Keystone Works (All Permissions Granted)
            Things I work on: https://github.com/pwillard

            Comment

            • scottb613
              2500 Post Veteran

              • Apr 2003
              • 2682
              • Downeast Maine (soon)
              • ORTS

              #21
              Hi Folks,

              Well - IT WORKS - 4m HD Terrain (double our current resolution) is a reality.

              LIDEX can make it - TSRE GenX can edit it - and Open Rails can run it.

              Thanks to James Ross - for adding it to unstable.

              NOTE: I think there is still a "normals" setting that needs to be changed in ORTS - as it specifically calls for 8m terrain mesh.

              HD Terrain Mesh makes the editing tools work better for berms and cuts - but if you're making a route in the US - the 1m LIDAR source data truly shines through.

              I have to start redoing most of my track now - as I can see the ROW identifying where the track should run - and I missed the mark a bit in many places. It's only a hundred miles or so - LOL.

              No loss of frames and as smooth as silk in ORTS.

              I hope this gets adopted in ORTS proper.



              4m HD Terrain Mesh:



              4m HD Terrain Mesh:




              Regards,
              Scott
              Last edited by scottb613; 08-25-2026, 13:47.
              <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

              Comment

              • EldoradoRailroad
                Senior Member
                • May 2010
                • 201

                #22
                Looking smooth there Scott, great stuff, and BIG THANKS!

                Steve

                Comment

                • scottb613
                  2500 Post Veteran

                  • Apr 2003
                  • 2682
                  • Downeast Maine (soon)
                  • ORTS

                  #23
                  Originally posted by EldoradoRailroad
                  Looking smooth there Scott, great stuff, and BIG THANKS!

                  Steve
                  Hi Steve,

                  Hah - trying to move the ball down the court...

                  One aspect at a time.

                  As for the discussion about the TERRTEX texture overhaul - I'm onboard - I have a proposal I created a while back that aligns well with your discussion - the only issue with a task like this - you need to garner ORTS developer support - find an interested party - please let me know.

                  Thanks.

                  Regards,
                  Scott
                  <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

                  Comment

                  • pwillard
                    2500 Post Veteran


                    • Nov 1999
                    • 3019
                    • Cumming Ga
                    • ORTS

                    #24
                    Great... now you have me wanting to work on a route again. ;-P
                    http://www.railsimstuff.com
                    Just Blender now, 3DCrafter only when I have to.
                    Formerly The Keystone Works (All Permissions Granted)
                    Things I work on: https://github.com/pwillard

                    Comment

                    • scottb613
                      2500 Post Veteran

                      • Apr 2003
                      • 2682
                      • Downeast Maine (soon)
                      • ORTS

                      #25
                      Originally posted by pwillard
                      Great... now you have me wanting to work on a route again. ;-P
                      Hi Pete,

                      Hah - I'm stuck under the code grindstone - nobody gets to play...


                      Anyone who's followed my threads over the years has seen I am heavily invested in both terrain and vegetation - man - these two aspects are looking really GOOD now.

                      I am trying to get the code to a solid state - so I can pack up what I have and turn it loose.

                      Regards,
                      Scott
                      Last edited by scottb613; 08-26-2026, 09:13.
                      <a href=https://www.trainsim.com/forums/filedata/fetch?filedataid=80663&type=full title=thumb_80663.png >thumb_80663.png</a>​ My Blender Models

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