New Website Proposal

[BrandonS261]

Hey everyone it's Brandon here.

You are probably all wondering oh great what does he want now and why has he not been on here that much lately. Frankly I have been busy working on some projects and getting ready to start the switch over from TSM that I have been using for YEARS and going over to Blender. That all being said my friend Josh (Scfe_fan) here on Trainsim have a new proposal that him and I are thinking of embarking on. Not sure if it will come to fruition but it is something we have been going back and forth about for some time now.

We have both noticed that there is no website for Open Rails (North American) that is devoted directly to steam locomotive and classic diesels along with equipment from that era. Yes we have this site and Elvastower and then a few payware sites like Train Simulations that focus all on modern day equipment.

With that all being said we have been thinking about making our own website for our creations that we make along with letting others who we feel fit to include there content as well.

This site would be Open Rails content only and high quality models along with it all being free content. Yes I said FREE and we would like to collaborate with some other high profile modelers if interested. Our focus for the site would be North American equipment that would include the US, Canada and maybe Mexico but have also thought about adding some UK steam stuff into the mix as well.

I am sure by now you are all thinking Why Brandon? Why make another website when we already have quite a few to go to? My answer to this is frankly we would like somewhere that has high quality models specific to Open Rails. There are no sites dedicated to just Steam Locomotives and classic diesels and especially in North America.

Yes I love Trainsim and Elvastower and I would still be active on these sites as so would Josh but I think it would be a good way for some of the best modelers who are passionate about Open Rails who enjoy building steam and classic diesels to come together as a team and collaborate with one another.

I am sure there will be a few of you who are going to be against this idea and we respect your criticism but we both feel it may be a good thing for the Open Rails community to have a site dedicated to steam and classic diesels that are high quality, realistic sounds and up to date physics.

Of course people will still be able to download content from our site on other sites as well like here on Trainsim and Elvastower or wherever they may please but we do plan on making some exclusive content just for our website as well.

Let us know what you all think and as of right now we are just kicking around with the idea as we build up our project inventory before we release anything to the public.

Brandon

[eric]

Well, best of luck if that's the direction you go in.

What I've observed is interest gets cultivated by showcasing what you're working on. I had little interest in Blender until Pete and others started showcasing their modeling projects.

My opinion, for what it's worth, is you stand a greater chance of getting people interested in what you're doing by presenting it to an audience that's already present and invested in Open Rails, be it right here or at Elvas.

I am sure there will be a few of you who are going to be against this idea and we respect your criticism but we both feel it may be a good thing for the Open Rails community to have a site dedicated to steam and classic diesels that are high quality, realistic sounds and up to date physics.

Rather than call it a criticism, perhaps you can explain why you don't feel you could accomplish the same thing here? Or maybe what would make a separate website stand apart?

There's functionality within the board software here that could be used to let people go into detail beyond a typical discussion or screenshot thread, including the ability to publish articles, member blogs and tutorials. If leveraging that might be of interest, just ask.

[BrandonS261]

Hey Eric, Thanks for the response and hope all is going well with you.

The website that Josh and I have in mind and this does not mean we will go through with it would be mainly steam locomotive and early diesels era. About 1860-1960 and would consist of high detailed Open Rails content only with No MSTS files. It would also only consist of North American content with some UK equipment from that era mixed in from time to time. There truly is not a website devoted specifically to steam locomotives and classic diesels and especially a site that is Open Rails specific.

We are not here to take anything away from anyone and only want to add to what is already currently out there. Yes Trainsim and Elvastower are great sites and I like them both but having a site specifically set aside for Open Rails content only we feel may be beneficial to the community as a whole.

We have enough of a gap now that MSTS is out of date and Open Rails is advanced enough to be on its own and we feel it is only right to have a site dedicated specifically to it.

Yes you do have some valid points and I do agree with you on some of them. I only started this to see what others thought of the idea before Josh and I decided to just go ahead and make a site of our own.

Brandon

[ossie]

The era you are focussing on is outside my interest range Brandon so my comments are without any bias. If you compare download numbers to what they were 5 years ago or the amount of sites that have disappeared in that time frame, there's clearly less of us involved now and most people have found their "niche" within the hobby. I'd say most people would agree that (in general) if you want early era diesels then you head to BLW and steam or steam related discussion, ET. Eric has made some amazing changes to the site and if I was in your shoes, I'd be jumping at his offer. At least here you've got an established group of people who may or may not get behind what you're doing. If you set up a new site, aside from possibly gaining some views/membership from people who are already involved with TS &/or ET, are you going to be able to draw in enough new people from outside the existing pool to make it worth your while? Good luck either way.

[BrandonS261]

Thank you Pete.

I do see what you and Eric are saying and yes we have lost many sites over the last few years like 3DTrains, UKTrainsim, along with many others. Now another idea Josh and I have discussed is having a site that is only Open Rails content and not have it be era specific but only for North American content. Yes it it is a far fetched idea and it may not even be practical to begin with but wanted to bring it up and see what others thought before we went ahead and started building a site.

Obviously both Josh and I would be involved in Trainsim as well if we did go off and start our own site but its just something we have thrown back and forth for some time now and thought we would pitch the idea to everyone else in the community.

Brandon

[agentatascadero]

Pretty much all of my sim interest is in vintage operations, so I'm very interested in the idea of vintage routes and equipment.

[Orbita]

I'm all for this. I primarily focus on the 1930-1960 era myself. This could be a game changer for those of us looking for decent looking steam models.

[rt35ge]

Brandon, starting up a website is a big task. I don't know what goes into that but two that do come to mind are time and money.You'll need people to oversee the site, admins and mods and other stuff. Not something a few people can do . I'm pretty much a Railworks guy so the site would not interest me unless you at some point expand into the other simulators. But I do like your concept. Good luck.

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

While I greatly appreciate the enthusiasm and interest - honestly - dividing us further wouldn't improve the situation. What are there - less than a dozen of us making any North American content for ORTS? Brandon and I are the only two I can think of - who actively work on modern US Steam (sorry if I forgot anyone). It takes a long time to build a good model.

What we really need are more people to pick up the modeling torch. Most modelers here are more than willing to help get people started (as others have done for us) - anyway we can. It's never been easier than it is now - with the advent of Blender - a tool infinitely better than Gmax, TSM, or 3DC. While the massive Blender community might not be able to help with ORTS specifics - having millions of users worldwide - making tutorials - addons - and - available to help - is a resource none of us ever had when starting out.

Just my two cents.

Regards,
Scott

[Nels_Anderson]

I love seeing the enthusiasm like this, and your modelling plans sounds great.

But I've always felt that fewer sites is better than more. It's a fairly small hobby so splintering its members among too many destinations is not really a good thing. There's also the issue that you would have to devote time to running the site that you could instead devote to developing trains. Unless you've done it, you don't realize just how much time this can take.

[landnrailroader]

I go with the notion that few is better. If you look back in history, why was Custer obliterated at Little Big Horn? He divided his force into 3 parts, so the native americans picked off each part with ease. I am not a good modeler, so I gave up my HO a decade or more ago, and many of my routes that exist are primitive by today's standards but could be upgraded if anyone wanted to and I would welcome that. As for Blender, sounds great, but I am still learning the ropes on TSRE. I look at Elvas Tower a little but the format of that website is very inferior to this one and I find it hard to find information I need.

Just as information, last May 15, I sat on a bench outside the Rapid City Airport waiting for a hotel shuttle and encountered a older couple, who I assumed were native american. They were, told me they lived at Pine Ridge and she was a retired teacher, he a retired Army officer. But, don't call us native americans, we are Lakota Sioux, and those native americans were our ancestors, a few thousand years before us. I mentioned that Pine Ridge was the location of Wounded Knee. "How do you know that?" I explained that I had read the book, "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" and she said it was required reading for their students but she knew of very few white folks that ever had seen it. Sometimes you meet the most delightful folks.

Jerry

[scottb613]

I go with the notion that few is better. If you look back in history, why was Custer obliterated at Little Big Horn? He divided his force into 3 parts, so the native americans picked off each part with ease. I am not a good modeler, so I gave up my HO a decade or more ago, and many of my routes that exist are primitive by today's standards but could be upgraded if anyone wanted to and I would welcome that. As for Blender, sounds great, but I am still learning the ropes on TSRE. I look at Elvas Tower a little but the format of that website is very inferior to this one and I find it hard to find information I need.

Just as information, last May 15, I sat on a bench outside the Rapid City Airport waiting for a hotel shuttle and encountered a older couple, who I assumed were native american. They were, told me they lived at Pine Ridge and she was a retired teacher, he a retired Army officer. But, don't call us native americans, we are Lakota Sioux, and those native americans were our ancestors, a few thousand years before us. I mentioned that Pine Ridge was the location of Wounded Knee. "How do you know that?" I explained that I had read the book, "Bury my heart at Wounded Knee" and she said it was required reading for their students but she knew of very few white folks that ever had seen it. Sometimes you meet the most delightful folks.

Jerry

Hi Jerry,

Hah - my Blender comments weren't aimed at subject matter experts who've found their own niche to contribute. They were intended more for people who are recent additions around here - who may have considered modeling - and just never took the plunge.

As a bit of a history buff - how could a group armed with Trapdoor Springfields ever hope to dominate another with Winchester Repeaters?


Regards,
Scott

[BrandonS261]

After reviewing everyone's comments both on here and Elvastower it seems to me that not a lot of people are up for the idea of a new site. I totally understand where everyone is coming from and yes I agree with a lot of your statements. Yes our community is small and only getting smaller as time goes on. Many modelers who were once prevalent in the MSTS era have either passed away or have steered away from MSTS/Open Rails all together to find a different Railroad Simulator game that suits them better.

The reason I bring up a new site is because there really is not a site dedicated just for Open Rails and all of the sites have MSTS content mixed into them and I feel there should be a site dedicated to just Open Rails content.

Like I said earlier there is enough of a gap between MSTS and Open Rails now that it is now a stand alone game so why do we not have its own dedicated site with Open Rails content only because the models that are now coming out for Open Rails are far more superior then the now 23 year old MSTS could ever be.

With this proposal of a new site we are not trying to rip the community apart but only add to it. Like Scott said we need more modelers and yes I believe he is right that currently only him and myself are the ones modeling steam locomotives for Open Rails.

There are not many young people in the community and I believe Scott, Josh and myself are some of the youngest ones here in the forums on here and Elvastower. I ask you all here in North America and over in the UK does Open Rails get much publicity? I don't believe so and part of that is because it is still associated with MSTS.

I only want to see Open Rails succeed into the future but the way the Open Rails, Trainsim and Elvastower sites are setup they can be very confusing to someone who is just walking into the sim and wanting to try out Open Rails for the first time.

Over the years Open Rails has gotten better about automatic install but it still is not a full plug and play program like TRAINZ, TSW and Train Simulator xxxx are. It still does not have a full startup screen and in order to update it you now need to go to page 2 for the updates. From the untrained eye it doesn't look like a very professional game compared to all of the other Train Simulator games out there.

Of course we all know the capabilities and how good the game is in the community but do others in the Train Simulator Communities know that or have even tried Open Rails? Probably not and just think it's a updated version of MSTS when it truly is not any more.

Why am I bringing all of this up? Because as stated above our community is slowly withering away and I feel a dedicated Open Rails site would not be such a bad idea and would maybe help bring some new younger blood into the community.

Brandon

[spoony1999]

I guess I'm confused because almost all the new content in the library here is Open Rails stuff and scrolling down to the MSTS forum section of this site I see very little activity compared to the Open Rails section of the forum, So IMO I don't see a need for an Open Rails only website when a place like Trainsim and Elvas Tower exist. Why couldn't the high quality options of steam and early diesel you discuss be uploaded here? We have the forums here already, so that's a great place for discussions to be had.
Unless you are talking about making the model's payware? If so, maybe Eric could have payment set up like he as with Melanie and the 3D Trains items and with some of the Diesels West offerings.
Again just my opinion, but I just don't see starting a new website with just Open Rails would make a lot of difference or bring in new people and seems to more of a headache than it's worth

Erik

[eric]

the way the Open Rails, Trainsim and Elvastower sites are setup they can be very confusing to someone who is just walking into the sim and wanting to try out Open Rails for the first time.

More than happy to discuss how that can be fixed.

One place I'd suggest starting.... Tutorials like we had on Steam4Me with MSTS. If someone were willing to take that on, I'll gladly give them the permissions here needed to author tutorial pages.