ConBuilder

[prr4ever]

Can someone please tell me where I can get ConBuilder downloaded? I am a paid user but have to replace Windows 11 on this computer due to some of the glitches in it. I looked all over Elvis Tower and their downloads but do not find CB on there. Don't see it here anywhere. Tried the ConBuilder Forum. No page loads. Have the CB program but I probably will need a new key to activate it.

BTW I have never been able to get the Consist section of TRSE to load as my previous topic states. I finally just got tired and had a lot of other stuff to get done so dropped that for a while.Since ConBuilder has always fulfilled all I need I gave up for a while on TRSE

[ckawahara]

Version 2.4.9 is here in the library. Don't think that you can get a new license for your new install of a paid version as Joe has retired. He was the only one that had the ability to create license files. I have had to revert to version 2.4.9 since I too was unable to get a new license for a new pc build.

[crstagg]

Dave,
Have you tried to contact Joe by PM?
He is joebandit both here and on Elvas Tower

[daniellouwrens]

BTW I have never been able to get the Consist section of TRSE to load as my previous topic states. I finally just got tired and had a lot of other stuff to get done so dropped that for a while.Since ConBuilder has always fulfilled all I need I gave up for a while on TRSE

I have also given up on using TSRE as a Consist builder, I cannot even get it to open as a consist builder.

Cheers

Daniel

[eric]

Opening the consist editor of TSRE couldn't be easier. It's a batch file or command line entry from your TSRE directory.


Batch file:

start TSRE5.exe --conedit

Command Line:

 C:\TSRE> TSRE5.exe --conedit

The executable name might vary between versions, however launching the consist editor or shape viewer have been the same command line entry ever since the contest editor was created years ago.

Do note that it is a Double Dash and not just a single Dash.

ConBuilder is a great tool, but it is now frozen in time. I would caution that it is not ORTS aware on some features which have been added within the last 5 years or so.

[oper190]

I'm still using Conbuilder 2.4.9 - as I've yet to wait long enough ( over 5 minutes ) for TRSE Consist Editor to load. Have Conbuilder up and running and work done before TRSE Consist Editor finished loading.

[crstagg]

I'm still using Conbuilder 2.4.9 - as I've yet to wait long enough ( over 5 minutes ) for TRSE Consist Editor to load. Have Conbuilder up and running and work done before TRSE Consist Editor finished loading.

My experience is much different. As most of you know I was a member of the ConBuilder team. I spent a lot of time comparing ConBuilder with other CEs. I have numerous Train Sim installs. My largest has almost 10,000 engine and wagon files. ConBuilder (6.2.3) takes just over 40 seconds to load. TRSE-CE (7.012) loads the same install in 10 seconds. This install is large enough that TSRE-CE displays progress bar dialogs as it reads the data.

If TSRE-CE is taking as long as you describe, I venture to say something is wrong with your install of TSRE. Does it display progress bars? If not even more indication that something is wrong.

TSRE-CE progress dialog:
image.png

[R. Steele]

I'm still using Conbuilder 2.4.9 - as I've yet to wait long enough ( over 5 minutes ) for TRSE Consist Editor to load. Have Conbuilder up and running and work done before TRSE Consist Editor finished loading

Definitely not my experience..... TSRE_CE loads considerably faster than ConBuilder, also I can have multiple instances of CE open at the same time, and importantly the need to change MSTS paths is not necessary.

oper190...when you have the time, check the log that TSRE_CE generates when loading, it will probably indicate what is slowing down the process.

[EldoradoRailroad]

My experience is much different. As most of you know I was a member of the ConBuilder team. I spent a lot of time comparing ConBuilder with other CEs. I have numerous Train Sim installs. My largest has almost 10,000 engine and wagon files. ConBuilder (6.2.3) takes just over 40 seconds to load. TRSE-CE (7.012) loads the same install in 10 seconds. This install is large enough that TSRE-CE displays progress bar dialogs as it reads the data.

Ah yes, but does creating a consist with TSRE still crash the program with that number of eng/wag?

I am not talking about getting lucky here, where you create a consist with the first items on the lists for end/wag. No, I am talking about scrolling through those lists with the 3D images of what you would like to use consuming memory like it's a fire sale, and then suddenly IT CRASHES as all resources are gobbled up.

Conbuilder does not do this, as it only displays a 3d model through shape viewer, which is a separate program altogether. I have not used TSRE for building consists for that reason, as whatever benefit you get from seeing what your consist is going to look like visually, with real models onscreen, is lost when it crashes. That memory management bug fell on deaf ears, and thus I consigned it to file 13 for that reason. If Eric has somehow fixed this bug, then I take everything I have written here, back!

Steve

[crstagg]

Ah yes, but does creating a consist with TSRE still crash the program with that number of eng/wag?

I am not talking about getting lucky here, where you create a consist with the first items on the lists for end/wag. No, I am talking about scrolling through those lists with the 3D images of what you would like to use consuming memory like it's a fire sale, and then suddenly IT CRASHES as all resources are gobbled up.

Conbuilder does not do this, as it only displays a 3d model through shape viewer, which is a separate program altogether. I have not used TSRE for building consists for that reason, as whatever benefit you get from seeing what your consist is going to look like visually, with real models onscreen, is lost when it crashes. That memory management bug fell on deaf ears, and thus I consigned it to file 13 for that reason. If Eric has somehow fixed this bug, then I take everything I have written here, back!

Steve

No TSRE-CE does not crash when creating a consist from my 10,000 items install.
Here is what I did. Opened TSRE-CE (7.012) to my 10,000 eng/wag install. Clicked File > New to start a new Consist. Set filter to Diesel. Double clicked first ENG to select. Then used arrow key to scroll down. (Note I used the down arrow key vice using the scroll bar because that causes TSRE to display each item. Where as using the scroll bar only causes each selected item to be displayed.) after getting a bunch of ENGs added to the consist I changer the filter to Freight. 4000 items listed. Using the same method with the down arrow key. Held key down for couple seconds. Lifted finger. Added item to consist. Repeated about 75 times and was at end of list. Added filename and display name to consist and saved. Closed TSRE. Reopened TSRE-CE. Opened the created file. All items in the consist as created.

My system: MSI PC Win 11, 11th Gen i7, 16GB RAM, NVIDA Geforce RXT 3060 1GB Ram, Boot drive with Train Sim install 1TB SSD

And by the way Steve. If you happen to have any new written for ORTS only ENGs or WAGs with Include file references, ConBuilder my not even load those items in its ENGs and WAGs lists. But TSRE-CE will.

[crstagg]

*********************

oper190...when you have the time, check the log that TSRE_CE generates when loading, it will probably indicate what is slowing down the process.

The file Gerry is referring to is LOG.TXT and will be the newest file in the folder.

[oper190]

If TSRE-CE is taking as long as you describe, I venture to say something is wrong with your install of TSRE. Does it display progress bars? If not even more indication that something is wrong.

The file Gerry is referring to is LOG.TXT and will be the newest file in the folder.

Thanks guys next time I might need a consist editor and on my gamer I'll give it a try, my laptop isn't up to speed to handle TSRE . Right now all my consist installs have been fixed so haven't needed to use Conbuilder of late.

[EldoradoRailroad]

No TSRE-CE does not crash when creating a consist from my 10,000 items install.

Charles,

Yes, it does unless you perform workarounds like you have described. But that defeats the purpose of using TSRE in the first place. At present there is no method to use TSRE like Conbuilder (Conbuilder allows the use of the mouse wheel scroll which is very handy and fast). I guess the default in TSRE should be to NEVER display a 3d model, unless doubled clicked etc to do so. But that kills the sexiness of TSRE. Should TSRE have this option, to not display UNLESS double clicked? I vote yes as a workaround to crashing.

I have read your workaround and it is very much what I tried some years back and I found that workflow cumbersome and fraught with errors by the user. The inability of TSRE to free up dynamic memory structures for most likely performance reasons is the cause of the crash. Once something is loaded into memory it is NEVER released, at least in the versions I used. BTW as a route editor, I found TSRE has the same problems with consumption of dynamic memory structures. Workarounds are/were to reduce the resolution of textures etc. But why should we have to do this in the year 2024bis with multiple gigabytes of system/gpu memory to work with? Even in the year 2024bis, memory management is still a thing. As a software developer whatever memory I allocate I have to take responsibility to free up. When it is not in use I should not play the "slot machine" that I did not consider the cases beyond the limited data set I tested with.

Yes, Conbuilder rejects ORTS definitions and thus is an incomplete solution to creating consists. But much like your workaround with TSRE, I use double eng/wag files. One works with Conbuilder and the other is what ORTS uses at runtime from the OR directory from the same eng/wag directory. It is a kludge solution, but no reboot of Conbulder is required to view a consist.

As we have both discovered having a large collection of models tests software to its limits. In years past, it was suggested that I break up my collection to avoid this dynamic memory allocation bug with TSRE. That is not very convenient at all. I do not have this problem with old Conbuilder, it just works. As indicated above, yes I have to do the extra work constructing those workable files for Conbulder, but that is a do once and copy for all the eng/wag files in that directory.

The original O/P question is of course not being addressed directly. As I have said before, "phone home software" with non transparent license installations are always going to be a problem. They are always going to be a problem when the payware developer "pulls the plug". This "might" be fine for some online game, but I always read about "unhappy campers" when this happens. This SaaS way of thinking is fine for the company that produces the software, but is a huge headache for the end user. Conbuilder fell into that category as I always suspected was going to happen, thus I never bought the payware version. When a developer pulls the plug and abandons a utility such as this one, with NO RECOURSE, would it not be better that the program become public domain? The next question will be of course, "oh I paid for my version of that payware", "why is it free now", "you are ripping me off"? I give you JointedRail, there are many models that became freeware after I had paid for them. But I am not concerned, as goodwill has been built up that benefits me with future model releases.

My point of view,
Steve

[yellowdog]

(Conbuilder allows the use of the mouse wheel scroll which is very handy and fast).
Steve

?

TSRE allows the mouse wheel scroll. If you hover the mouse over the 3d model, it zooms in and out of that model. If you hover over the list of freight, it scrolls up and down that list (same if you hover over the list of consists).

I have over 13000 items, and over 4000 consists in my main sim folder. No issues here.

[jasonjedi1]

I paid for Conbuilder as well, but it TSRE consist editor showing real time 3d view. Made it obsolete for me. Dont think I could ever go back.