Dark signals on the Pokey District

[jackcary]

I am encountering dark signals, however when I pass the signal it will light up as a red signal. How do I create a log file that will tell me the signal type so I can check the sigcfg data file to make sure the signal is working properly?

[R. Steele]

Quick fix until a signal guru sees the thread....when starting the pokey ( or any route this happens with ) before doing anything else, switch to manual mode ( Ctrl+M ) and then back to Auto mode...this should "reboot" the signals for OR so they show correctly. Why this happens with some routes ... I do not know. [or I knew & have forgotten --- which is very possible at this point in time 🙄😀 ]

[dcarleton]

There's a utility for that sigcfg_checker_v1_1.zip
File ID 87608 in the library.

No idea how it works, but somebody must know?

[derekmorton]

I see dark signals sometimes on a resume.
Gerry's fix above restores the signals after a restore.

[oper190]

Was having the same problem in Pokey and a few other routes using the same signal script. Found where the problem was. Took a lot of reviewing of the signal sigcfg.dat file but I found the errors. Was starting to pull my hair out and trying all sort of modifications to the file and, really screwed things up, but restored back the sigcfg.bat file ( always back it up with a copy first )
So then took a very careful look of anything that didn't look right and found this

Need to look at the sections like this:

SignalAspects ( 4
SignalAspect ( STOP "Dark" SpeedMPH ( 0 ) )
SignalAspect ( APPROACH_3 "Flashing Yellow" SpeedMPH ( 30 ) )
SignalAspect ( CLEAR_1 "Green" )
)

Look at the first line SignalAspects ( # - In some cases there are entries with more Aspects than the Aspect #, just make that # equal to the number of aspects listed and all signals should work. In this instance I changed it to 3 but not sure if less aspects was a problem but in cases were there were more aspects, than stated the extras won't work.

Also missed one and found the error listed in the OR Error Log, so it was a quick find and fix.

[oper190]

Recalled something else and I was in error in my last post in the example in showed. It is for a signal for a switch ( area of line 257 in the script ) found it should read:

SignalAspects ( 4
SignalAspect ( STOP "Dark" SpeedMPH ( 0 ) )
SignalAspect ( APPROACH_3 "Flashing Yellow" SpeedMPH ( 30 ) )
SignalAspect ( CLEAR_1 "Green" )
SignalAspect ( CLEAR_2 "Green" )
)

It was missing the 4th aspect "CLEAR 2" for the alternate switch, which would show a dark signal instead of GREEN when set in that position. Might have been more than one instance of this don't recall.
I recall that I added the extra line in any case like that. With those changes all the signals work A-Ok.

[qballbandit]

Gerry, that is interesting. I have a route with a few dark signals where if I hit CTRL+M and then "tab", the signals show. But, switching back to auto (CTRL+M a second time) they black out again.

[ebnertra000]

Without seeing the signal files, I suspect the script is looking for SIGASP_CLEAR_2, while the sigcfg file only had SIGASP_CLEAR_1. Because there's no aspect set for CLEAR_2, the signal will just be dark. You could fudge that in MSTS, but OR won't take that

[asteph627]

I have a DVD of the Pokey Sub and some of the signals on the DVD show some signals are dark until passed, then turning to red. Maybe this is the prototypical signal setup that was used. I once questioned why the PRR East Region has 3 verttical signal aspects displaying yellow instead of Green for CLEAR Indications and was told by the author that this is how the signals were displayed on the prototype. I believe that even though the signals are dark on the Pokey, they show up as Green on the Track Monitor.

AJ

[oper190]

I have a DVD of the Pokey Sub and some of the signals on the DVD show some signals are dark until passed, then turning to red. Maybe this is the prototypical signal setup that was used. I once questioned why the PRR East Region has 3 verttical signal aspects displaying yellow instead of Green for CLEAR Indications and was told by the author that this is how the signals were displayed on the prototype. I believe that even though the signals are dark on the Pokey, they show up as Green on the Track Monitor.

AJ

Possible it was intentional, but it would have been nice with some sort of note saying that it was intentional and why. Regardless, once it's on MY computer I'll do with it what I want, and I want to see the signals. It's MY Train Sim World!

[asteph627]

Jeez, do get your panties in an uproar. I have changed lots of things on all my routes, for as you say, It's MY Train Sim world. Unfortunately, I still haven't figured out the signaling logic, so I use whatever signaling comes with route. I'm not faulting you for trying to correct them, I wish I could also and personally I would like to change all of the yellow CLEAR aspects on the PRR East Region to GREEN, but until I learn how, they have to stay. Well at least they show up green on the track monitor. Sorry to get your blood pressure up.

AJ

[landnrailroader]

Friends,

It wasn't mentioned but on the PRR-East those three vertical yellow lights are the aspect for a PRR signal to show "Proceed". Actually they are supposed to be lunar white but most I have seen in the "wild" looked more like a cream color. Diagonally, they would show Approach, and crosswise is Stop. Now on the Pokey, the signals are also position lights but they have colors, so 2 vertical greens is proceed, 2 diagonal yellows is Approach, and 2 crosswise red is stop. In both cases, the original idea was that if one bulb burnt out, the aspect would still be usable though it would be reported as imperfect. B&O also used color lights but had other things to mean this or that and if you really want to get to the paper doll factory quickly, just study a B&O rule book.

Jerry Sullivan
(retired from CSX where I spent 21 years in the signal department - managing the CAD system)

[ebnertra000]

Friends,

It wasn't mentioned but on the PRR-East those three vertical yellow lights are the aspect for a PRR signal to show "Proceed". Actually they are supposed to be lunar white but most I have seen in the "wild" looked more like a cream color. Diagonally, they would show Approach, and crosswise is Stop. Now on the Pokey, the signals are also position lights but they have colors, so 2 vertical greens is proceed, 2 diagonal yellows is Approach, and 2 crosswise red is stop. In both cases, the original idea was that if one bulb burnt out, the aspect would still be usable though it would be reported as imperfect. B&O also used color lights but had other things to mean this or that and if you really want to get to the paper doll factory quickly, just study a B&O rule book.

Jerry Sullivan
(retired from CSX where I spent 21 years in the signal department - managing the CAD system)

The yellowish color for position-lights is accurate. It was called 'fog yellow' and was designed for maximum visibility in poor weather. I've never heard of a high PL having lunar lights, though some dwarf and pedestal signals got them (most had clear lenses, so they'd be slightly yellow, like an old flashlight).

As far as Pokey having colorized PLs, was the line ex-N&W? If so, the top head was fully colorized, but the bottom head wasn't.

Oh, and B&O's CPLs aren't that hard to figure out. They look weird, but they have a rock-solid logic to them that they never deviate from

[a1hogger]

It may be just a story, but I was told that position lights were created because during wartime railroaders were needed so badly that the railroads would take any breathing man, even color blind, but they could read position signals.

[oper190]

A check on Wikipedia - PRR starting using them in 1915, though other lines might have added them as you heard. The yellow used by the PRR ( & LIRR ) was for visibility in foggy conditions. Something not uncommon on their coastal routes and the LIRR.