Some non-members contribute routes, rolling stock, and just about everything else people could use for building their routes. These contributions take thousands of hours to create, and we should pay to download the odd thing because?
Here's an idea. There are several Commercial Providers that post their wears here, why not charge them for advertising? Some have people who promote their products, charge them too. Some of these commercial providers download route that say right in the readmes not for commercial purposes but stage their rollingstock on them to create their advertising to post here... they don't even ask permission. Whey not save bandwidth and give them the boot.
Alienating large portions of the community to save a few bucks in bandwidth, over what really amounts to a non-issue, is not exactly the play I would take if I ran TS.com
You ain't stopping at this hotel, kid. My hotel! The stars at night, I put 'em there. And I know the presidents, all of them. And I go where I d*** well please. Even the chairman of the New York Central can't do it better. My road, kid, and I don't give lessons and I don't take partners. -Lee Marvin
I get the feeling the overwhelming majority of activity in the file library in the last few years is from the Indian 'market'. North American content/downloads has basically fallen off a cliff. Not sure how that affects costs, or if it does...
No downloads unless you buy a membership...each membership level from cheapest to most expensive allows for more/or faster downloads.
No paid membership allows user to view all downloads, and post in certain forums as guest.
This is the most sensible solution I've seen! Most clubs (and we are a club) charge some sort of membership fee, if only to cover running costs. NOTHING is for free and, sorry, but the user who commented that it'd be like turning freeware into payware is talking a load of rubbish. Some sites, like elvastower.com don't charge for downloading from their library (although they have other conditions) but it's nothing like the size of the ts.com library. That being said, I wouldn't object if a charge was introduced!
The voluntary subscription model isn't going away in favor of a forced subscription model.
However......
Originally posted by duke1234
Alienating large portions of the community to save a few bucks in bandwidth, over what really amounts to a non-issue....
That "a few bucks in bandwidth" isn't just a few bucks. I'm guessing (and only guessing) it's on the order of $2500 a year, if not more.
I'm currently doing cost-outs on hosting for another site that many of us frequEnT, and taking into account the massive size of the file library here (which alone is at >320 Gb), it's upward of $200 a month to get a cloud VPS or dedicated server with that much space and the bandwidth.
At some point, those bills have to be paid if we're going to continue to enjoy what we've got here.
Originally posted by duke1234
...not exactly the play I would take if I ran TS.com
OK, I'll bite. What play would you suggest?
If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!
I've said before, I really can't Contribute On-Line Payment of any kind really. Granted, have in past. Tiger-Trains, SLI & TS once They took It over. I was able to with TS back in '20 because of The "Big Hand-Outs" being Given & didn't effect any amount The Feds. on other End would Notice, so The Payee didn't Care like They do now( even for $10 a Month! ). But, It's rather tough when & if able. "Why spend The Money on something not even real like that for $10, when it can go to food & other Needs, come on now"!? Sorry to bring it up or say It again. Plus, I've always enjoyed just 2 DLs @ sametime.
Since this came up over at the other site, here's their solution to balance out downloading with participation in the community:
zero posts
no downloads
1 - 2 posts
15M per week
3 - 9 posts
75M per week
10 - 24 posts
200M per week
25+ posts
No Restrictions
Not saying that this is the perfect approach, but I'd love to see new people engaging more in the conversation, as opposed to simply helping themselves to the file library.
If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!
Here's an idea. There are several Commercial Providers that post their wears here, why not charge them for advertising? Some have people who promote their products, charge them too. Some of these commercial providers download route that say right in the readmes not for commercial purposes but stage their rollingstock on them to create their advertising to post here... they don't even ask permission. Whey not save bandwidth and give them the boot.
Paul :-)
See, this is why you couldn't charge people for even the most basic access to freeware downloads, per Gerry's idea. This site would then fall into the same category of 'moocher' that would be making money, for its own accord, on the backs of someone else's freeware development efforts that some creators take severe umbrage to in their EULAs. You would essentially be turning the new content production of this library over to a handful of freeware developers who entertain some rather unique sovereignty ideas based on how they value their development time. And what fun would that be?
I get the feeling the overwhelming majority of activity in the file library in the last few years is from the Indian 'market'. North American content/downloads has basically fallen off a cliff. Not sure how that affects costs, or if it does...
I wondered if there ever has been a study of which parts of the globe are the most aggressive at using bandwidth vs actually whipping out their wallets and supporting the site's costs.
Back when this newly-found love affair with 'fresh engagement from India' was a thing, I had a feeling it was not going to end well in terms of financial support for the site. Somehow, it would eventually slip into a 'makers' vs 'takers' thing, where the largest consumers of bandwidth ends up being from parts of the world that are the least financially supportive. Has anyone ever done a study to put actual numbers on the problem? And how much of the library content from this new geographic source amounts to unauthorized re-use that slips through detection by the library host since the piracy curve would naturally be a few years behind ours in these newly exploited geographic areas.
When you go fishing for new users just for the sake of clicks among the poorer, less economically developed parts of the globe, can you really expect that to end well, financially? Yes, I'm sure a handful of 'global train simmers' may have enjoyed the brief influx of new library material from anywhere and everywhere, but when you subtract the territorial simmers who prefer to 'sim local', there is simply not enough people remaining to 'pay the freight'.
I have to admit, I was surprised to see the download numbers (50,000+!) on Indian items that are 10+ years newer than any of the 'old school big hitters' ( NALW, Xtracks, etc ).
The voluntary subscription model isn't going away in favor of a forced subscription model.
However......
That "a few bucks in bandwidth" isn't just a few bucks. I'm guessing (and only guessing) it's on the order of $2500 a year, if not more.
I'm currently doing cost-outs on hosting for another site that many of us frequEnT, and taking into account the massive size of the file library here (which alone is at >320 Gb), it's upward of $200 a month to get a cloud VPS or dedicated server with that much space and the bandwidth.
At some point, those bills have to be paid if we're going to continue to enjoy what we've got here.
OK, I'll bite. What play would you suggest?
I didn't mean for this to be as inflammatory as it must have been.
Yes that bandwidth isn't cheap. But in the grand scheme of thing its not a ton of money, Eolesen. Especially when you consider that TS.com is one of the last great pillars of MSTS and Open Rails. I am a full member of Elvas Tower, and I typically call that my home forum, but if something were to happen that would destabilize TS.com. Since this site is the hub for most of the remaining MSTS/OR users, of which there are not many. I'm willing to bet it would have massive consequences to the entire OR/MSTS community as a whole.
If I ran TS.com and my understanding is the same as what it is now. I would just stay the course that this forum has had forever. Unless were looking at dire times and can't keep the lights on, why change it now?
You ain't stopping at this hotel, kid. My hotel! The stars at night, I put 'em there. And I know the presidents, all of them. And I go where I d*** well please. Even the chairman of the New York Central can't do it better. My road, kid, and I don't give lessons and I don't take partners. -Lee Marvin
Since this came up over at the other site, here's their solution to balance out downloading with participation in the community:
zero posts
no downloads
1 - 2 posts
15M per week
3 - 9 posts
75M per week
10 - 24 posts
200M per week
25+ posts
No Restrictions
Not saying that this is the perfect approach, but I'd love to see new people engaging more in the conversation, as opposed to simply helping themselves to the file library.
Also, while this works in smaller forms. I hope you got your moderating gloves on and are ready to remove the influx of crap posting that hits Elvas from time to time.
You ain't stopping at this hotel, kid. My hotel! The stars at night, I put 'em there. And I know the presidents, all of them. And I go where I d*** well please. Even the chairman of the New York Central can't do it better. My road, kid, and I don't give lessons and I don't take partners. -Lee Marvin
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