Question about mixing OR and MSTS equipment

[agentatascadero]

Knowing OR is backwards compatible with MSTS...one can run MSTS routes etc running in OR.

I have lots of MSTS equipment I'd like to use on OR routes. There are a number of steam locomotives, thinking of the SP GS series, and WP Mikes, which were built in both MSTS and OR.
I saw a disclaimer on some of the OR downloads which indicated they could not be used in MSTS. Does that mean that absent that disclaimer, other OR equipment may be able to run in MSTS.
I take it one cannot just mix and match OR and MSTS equipment. I'm hoping my questions will generate a bit of guidance for me.

AA

[motormaster532]

Let me clear up your question. You CAN run MOST,if not ALL of your MSTS equipment in Open Rails,this includes Open Rails exclusive Routes. I do it all the time! The problem occurs if you desire to run Open Rails exclusive content in MSTS. That you CANNOT do!!! Also,another important thing to know,critical,crucial,any adjective will do for this admonition! You CANNOT RUN OPEN RAILS EXCLUSIVE CONTENT{Routes,Trainsets,Consists,whatever} through your MSTS Editors. You will be jammed up like nobodys' business! You MUST have a seperate Installation for Open Rails exclusive from MSTS! Hope I made it clearer as it is a bit complicated to follow what you can and cannot do. If you have any question or if I was not clear,you can ALWAYS respond here or PM me. Have fun! Brian

[charland]

The vast majority of things built for MSTS will also run on OR. In the last few years things like cabviews have improved, the ace files have gone from 512 pixels to 1024 pixels and that's the only reason some newer locomotives will not open in MSTS. Change the cabview to something older, and they'll most likely open in MSTS... but the frame rates suck compared to OR.

Paul :-)

[agentatascadero]

With Windows10 and using Raildriver, I'm locked in to running in Open Rails, which is fine, for the most part. MSTS content runs fine in OR, again, for the most part.
Part of my question is those steam locomotives, which were built in both MSTS and OR. I've had difficulties running some MSTS steam, and wonder if/think steam modelled in both formats would run better if the OR version was used. So, can I take those OR steamers and put them in an MSTS route, or mix with MSTS equipment? There is far more rolling stock in MSTS than exists in OR....can that MSTS rolling stock be run on OR routes?
So, if one truly wants to mix and match between MSTS and OR, will it work?
AA

[R. Steele]

...
So, if one truly wants to mix and match between MSTS and OR, will it work?
AA

I do it all the time, no problems. I run diesel locomotives, but steam should make no difference. However, I use OpenRails folders and include files to convert to OR physics and take advantage of OR operating parameters. The routes make no difference to the equipment. However, the newer TrainSimulations routes made expressly for OR ( Mullan, Ruel, etc ) must be installed as directed ( they use dds files instead of ace and have other OR features that do not run in MSTS) You can populate the trainset folder with MSTS legacy stock alongside the OR equipment that is provided with the route.

Does that mean that absent that disclaimer, other OR equipment may be able to run in MSTS.

Equipment and routes made for OR will not load or run correctly in MSTS

I'm not sure I understand the question...for your clarification...it's all laid out in Section 4.1 Overview in the manual and in subsequent sections.

[motormaster532]

With Windows10 and using Raildriver, I'm locked in to running in Open Rails, which is fine, for the most part. MSTS content runs fine in OR, again, for the most part.
Part of my question is those steam locomotives, which were built in both MSTS and OR. I've had difficulties running some MSTS steam, and wonder if/think steam modelled in both formats would run better if the OR version was used. So, can I take those OR steamers and put them in an MSTS route, or mix with MSTS equipment? There is far more rolling stock in MSTS than exists in OR....can that MSTS rolling stock be run on OR routes?
So, if one truly wants to mix and match between MSTS and OR, will it work?
AA

Yeah,if your steamers were built for MSTS they should run in Open Rails with no problem. You will NOT be able to take OR "exclusive" equipment and run it in MSTS. Concerning mixing equipment- you can do that in Open Rails only! Trying to mix in MSTS will get you a whole lot of problems! Brian

[agentatascadero]

Thank you, gentlemen. I'm most interested in using MSTS equipment in OR. The big exception is steam locomotives made for OR. Even there, most were already built for MSTS, so I suppose I could obtain both versions, and hope to avoid confusion between the two.

AA

[R. Steele]

Thank you, gentlemen. I'm most interested in using MSTS equipment in OR. The big exception is steam locomotives made for OR. Even there, most were already built for MSTS, so I suppose I could obtain both versions, and hope to avoid confusion between the two.

AA

Hope can become a certainty if you rename to OR steam engines with the suffix "OR"

[eric]

Once you experience the differences in detail and physics of a "made for ORTS" steam or diesel engine, you might not want to load the MSTS ones again.



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[agentatascadero]

Following this suggestion, I went looking for OR steam power, and found there isn't much, especially when I'm most focused on SP power, but I did find and download the SP GS 2 and 6 series in OR. The look and sound fine, especially in the lack of the overpowering sound of the water feed (?), on the MSTS 4449 model.
When I ran the OR models, I found them underpowered, especially when compared to the MSTS 4449. So, "brain flash", I decided to run them doubleheaded, and found that combination even weaker than running them alone.
I worry that I'll never be able to run steam successfully on OR, at this rate. Hopefully there is some sort of operator error that I'm not finding the solution to. This issue does not occur when running diesel or electric power.

AA

[R. Steele]

I would suggest reading what Peter Newell has posted on his Coals to Newcastle web site regarding OR Steam Physics

https://www.coalstonewcastle.com.au/...r-steam-model/ and https://www.coalstonewcastle.com.au/...s/steam-intro/

You might find something helpful...or it could be a bug or some parameter is set up incorrectly.

[charland]

Searching for OR steam probably will not produce a lot of steam that is made for OR. The only real difference between steam or diesels "made of OR" is the cabview files. A locomotive made with a 1024 x 1024 pixel cabview will open in OR, but will not open in MSTS. A locomotive with a 512 x 512 pixel cabview will open in both.

Paul :-)

[agentatascadero]

Thanks Gerry, hopefully it'll have answers for me. My only thought after those disappointing runs was to increase the value for power or force, but that could lead to unanticipated trouble.
i'll report back after study......and I do hope I'll b e able to grasp what I am reading.

AA

[agentatascadero]

Oh boy. I just paid a visit to the site and looked over the material. If I have to understand and be familiar with all of this in order to properly operate OR steam....I'll most definitely never get there.
At first I was thinking...if I just could increase the the "power" or "force" values, maybe that would do it. Then I thought about use of the reverser, the cut-of factor......maybe I was unable to find the cut-off "sweet spot" for max HP at that speed.
Now it appears one would have to work complex formulas....to do what exactly??? Now I really feel lost.
I know....more study. It appears this stuff is simply above my pay grade.

AA

AA

[R. Steele]

The formulas are for context, to show how the parameters for OR are arrived at...Buried in there somewhere, are ORTS parameters for steam, a sample steam engine all set up for OR ... I could not find them, being more familiar with the diesel parameters...perhaps dropping a note to Peter at the site and he could show you the pages.