Current US Freight physics

[CSRX]

Two questions.
One, I am going with a simple system, couplers inc file, and brakes inc file. Will I need a separate brake file for loads and empties or can they just remain the same? I know in reality, a train of 40 empties will come to a quick stop compared to 40 loads, even though the brake system remains the same.

Two, I am trying to understand the resistance portion a little better, but this kind of has me scratching my head and wonder, how did one come up with the values with that formula? I can't seem to figure out for example, how Gerry has his set up. I am curious to as, I have to change these values in the car wagon file itself, to better suit a boxcar, covered hopper, etc...


Found some Coupler types, for modern equipment, these are the types I only ever see. E and F type.
E is found on pretty much anything from Boxcars, Covered Hoppers, and Flatcars.
F is found on all tankcars, and some covered hoppers.

Any idea on the break values of F considering E is pretty high up there?

[CSRX]

Well, just spent another two hours going through the files, adding the include files, etc etc, and oh gee, load up in ORTS, and the cars no longer load in.

Go figure.. All this is doing is aggravating me, and giving me a headache. KISS, something I should just stick with instead of wasting my valuable time with things that aren't even 100 percent solid!!

Here is a link to what I have attempted. Maybe someone can figure out exactly what I am doing wrong here. Maybe I should leave all this nonsense to the professionals, and release my cars as is without all this additional ORTS this and ORTS that...

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ruej8bnxa8mn0it/NVLW_CarsInQuestion.zip?dl=0

[scottb613]

Two questions.
One, I am going with a simple system, couplers inc file, and brakes inc file. Will I need a separate brake file for loads and empties or can they just remain the same? I know in reality, a train of 40 empties will come to a quick stop compared to 40 loads, even though the brake system remains the same.

Two, I am trying to understand the resistance portion a little better, but this kind of has me scratching my head and wonder, how did one come up with the values with that formula? I can't seem to figure out for example, how Gerry has his set up. I am curious to as, I have to change these values in the car wagon file itself, to better suit a boxcar, covered hopper, etc...


Found some Coupler types, for modern equipment, these are the types I only ever see. E and F type.
E is found on pretty much anything from Boxcars, Covered Hoppers, and Flatcars.
F is found on all tankcars, and some covered hoppers.

Any idea on the break values of F considering E is pretty high up there?

Hi Shawn,

I have yet to get good results with a steam locomotive and "Advanced Couplers" - the train just jerks the locomotive all over the place - Peter swears it works well and he has a demo on his site - I haven't had a chance to mess with it again.

The other NEW ORTS Feature I haven't tested is Peter set it up so you can call different model couplers and air hoses - effectively animating them when connected. Coupler knuckles that open/close and air hoses that connect/disconnect. I need to try this as well - as dangling air hoses never worked for me.

ORTS Advanced Coupler Test

https://youtu.be/PLozxRwH3gE

I believe the friction values are derived from FCALC2 here in the FL. If unfamiliar - make sure the FCALC settings and the units you use are the same - imperial vs metric. My units are the imperial in my example - I need to change the respective setting to match every time I launch FCALC.

Can't help on the E - although the author I quoted notes - the letter designations - can - but don't necessarily mean the lbf ratings changes - he said it's the style of coupler.

Regards,
Scott

[CSRX]

I removed the include files, and put the brake info, and coupler info back into the original wagon files. All loaded in the sim fine.

Now, I am tinkering on the coupler slack action, specifically the long drawbar style cars, such as most F plate boxcars, and centerbeams. I took note of what was posted on the CTN site, does ORTS handle them being in inches? I gave it a test, and seemed okay to me, especially seems I typically see a ton of F plate boxcars with this much slack!

I'd love to have the animated airhoses and couplers as well, however, I don't see those shape files available, unless I missed it somewhere?

[steamer_ctn]

I have yet to get good results with a steam locomotive and "Advanced Couplers" - the train just jerks the locomotive all over the place - Peter swears it works well and he has a demo on his site - I haven't had a chance to mess with it again.

When I get some time, I want to revisit the advanced couplers to try and make them more robust.

So perhaps it is best to use this feature for personal use at the moment. For content developers, perhaps it would be best to use "standard" couplers, and make adjustments when when the feature has been proven more robust, and in line with your content upgrade strategy.

The other NEW ORTS Feature I haven't tested is Peter set it up so you can call different model couplers and air hoses - effectively animating them when connected. Coupler knuckles that open/close and air hoses that connect/disconnect. I need to try this as well - as dangling air hoses never worked for me.

This feature works for player trains (see demonstration activity), however I suspect that it needs broader testing to ensure that there are no "hidden" issues.

[scottb613]

Hi Shawn,

I did look at your example and it looked OK.

Since you have it working - perhaps it's best to leave well enough alone.

I don't know your level of computer literacy - so please forgive me if obvious - but as you listed - the "NVLW_include" folder needs to be placed in your "Trains" directory. Also - I noted the INC files weren't "Unicode" not 100% sure that they have to be - but a WAG file won't work unless it's Unicode.

Regards,
Scott

[CSRX]

Hi Shawn,

I did look at your example and it looked OK.

Since you have it working - perhaps it's best to leave well enough alone.

I don't know your level of computer literacy - so please forgive me if obvious - but as you listed - the "NVLW_include" folder needs to be placed in your "Trains" directory. Also - I noted the INC files weren't "Unicode" not 100% sure that they have to be - but a WAG file won't work unless it's Unicode.

Regards,
Scott

Regards,
Scott

Could be why it didn't work, as I didn't save them as Unicode. Not even sure how attempt that one.
The folder was in the trains directory as was everything else.

I got them working fine now, so I guess just leave it as is and edit them all when needed. Shrugs.

[scottb613]

Hi Shawn,

Route Riter will convert - or simply drag and drop onto the "txt2uni.exe" in the MSTS UTILS directory. I normally just copy the program to wherever I'm working to make it easy.

Hi Folks,

Since we're talking about physics in general - this might prove helpful - as understanding how the train should work realistically is a big part of the puzzle for me. I've been playing with my brake settings - trying to get plausible stopping distances - on my freight car fleet.

Train Stopping Time/Distance

Based on an analysis of 8 train configurations travelling at over 110km/h (65m/h), a freight train stops on average in 1848 meters (6062ft) and 77 seconds, and a passenger train stops in 731m (2400ft) and 46 seconds. The stopping distance can change if the train is going uphill or downhill, even at a very slight gradient.

Freight Train: 8400 tonne, 1500m long 90 seconds 2152 meters (7060ft)
Freight Train: 2016 tonne, 1500m long 58 seconds 1396 meters (1850ft)
Freight Train: 1500 tonne, 680m long 64 seconds 1449 meters (4753ft)
Freight Train: 2760 tonne, 1280m long 76 seconds 1850 meters (6070ft)
Freight Train: 3480 tonne, 1600m long 83 seconds 2025 meters (6644ft)
Freight Train: unknown, 1800m long 90 seconds 2217 meters (7273ft)
Passenger Train 1 49 seconds 762 meters (2500ft)
Passenger Train 2 43 seconds 700 meters (2297ft)

The data in this table is based on design standards from ARTC. The standards are used in calculating distances for signaling, and for train headway performance. Data is based on measurement of freight train performance, train braking standards, and calculation. Freight trains were assumed carrying coal.

Regards,
Scott

[CSRX]

Thanks Scott, between you and Gerry, you both have been very helpful!