Long Train Operation

[steamer_ctn]

If you are operating long trains, then you will be interested in potential derailment issues, and your trains will need to be marshalled appropriately.

Open Rails supports derailment detection, and this feature is demonstrated in the mini route described here -

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...51#entry278251

The scenarios described are based upon actual Accident Reports describing derailments.

[geepster775]

Please be aware:

Railcars with unusual wag characteristics are showing excessive derailment habits. These long runner cars by David Rowe that utilize a special wag to apply a third trailer to bridge the drawbar connection between 2 other railcars are constantly derailing the middle trailer wag on the gentlest of curves.

What other 'odd load' railcars are out there that are incompatible with the derailment math that could cause problems?

[eric]

I'd think some of the welded rail and wind turbine cars would behave similarly.

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[niknak]

I have the "Activity Randomisation" option set to 2 and sometimes get a "carxx has derailed on the curve" message popping up. when I run activities with 89ft container flats in the consist. Doesn't seem to affect the activity so I just carry on regardless.

Nick

[UP_4848_Thunder]

It's all about the length dimension parameters an number axles. If number axles were 0 there should be no derailment for the long runner centers. The ATWells I suspect are getting a complete all time fix for this with correct axles an dimension parameters.

long cars against short cars like the real thing an with the scenario are vulnerable to derailments when against long cars especially if close to headend.

[steamer_ctn]

Please be aware:
Railcars with unusual wag characteristics are showing excessive derailment habits. These long runner cars by David Rowe that utilize a special wag to apply a third trailer to bridge the drawbar connection between 2 other railcars are constantly derailing the middle trailer wag on the gentlest of curves.

Are you suggesting that the truck trailer is created as a car to add it to the load on the train?

As @UP_4848_Thunder has suggested, the principle issues that will create derailments on long trains are the "correct" combination of:

i) light weight cars
ii) mixture of short and long cars positioned in adjacent positions
iii) high train forces on their couplers.
iv) small radius curves

Hence the worst case scenario is if a light weight car is placed at the front of a heavy train on a small radius curve.

If David's car meet the above type of criteria, then it is highly probable that derailment will occur.

[UP_4848_Thunder]

Please be aware:

Railcars with unusual wag characteristics are showing excessive derailment habits. These long runner cars by David Rowe that utilize a special wag to apply a third trailer to bridge the drawbar connection between 2 other railcars are constantly derailing the middle trailer wag on the gentlest of curves.

Seeing how Rowe made the visual mid car a wag for visual purposes, there is few things that need to be adjusted. Dave had the center trailers mass at 0.5t. I would suggest to tweak these mass to at least 10.0t.

Other thing I would suggest is try these dimension parameters added to a section of the wag file
For TTEX RTTX A an B units

ORTSLengthBogieCentre ( 19.890m )
ORTSLengthCarBody ( 22.500m )
ORTSLengthCouplerFace ( 28.605m )
ORTSNumberAxles ( 4 )
ORTSNumberBogies ( 2 )


For Center trailers

ORTSLengthBogieCentre ( 5.5m )
ORTSLengthCarBody ( 10.500m )
ORTSLengthCouplerFace ( 16.5m )
ORTSNumberAxles ( 1 )
ORTSNumberBogies ( 1 )

[johnnyboy99]

I thought ORTS didn't really have derailments like MSTS did

[baldwin]

MSTS did not have ordinary derailments. It was possible to crash a train and have the cars derail, but it was not a design feature of the game.

[R. Steele]

I thought ORTS didn't really have derailments like MSTS did

It doesn't...in OR there is a notification in the F5 Train Driving Info window that a car ( or cars ) have derailed, nothing else happens.

[motormaster532]

If you are operating long trains, then you will be interested in potential derailment issues, and your trains will need to be marshalled appropriately.

Open Rails supports derailment detection, and this feature is demonstrated in the mini route described here -

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...51#entry278251

The scenarios described are based upon actual Accident Reports describing derailments.

That feature is way off. I get derailed cars when I use the minimum of Dynamic Brake. I am glad I didn't have this problem when I was running. Brian

[UP_4848_Thunder]

Lucky no discipline actions or visuals happen in ORTS yet but tells you something or someone is wrong an that's a good thing till stock and trains are marshaled to real standards around curves. String line or jacknife has always been needed to test a skill an stock.

That feature is way off. I get derailed cars when I use the minimum of Dynamic Brake. I am glad I didn't have this problem when I was running. Brian

What stock are you using and how has your train been made up for this to happen? Missing needed dimension parameters or poor adjusted wag/eng files can derail the train regardless how smooth you run. Derailments are not always the engineers fault either but how train is built or mechanical issues in stock or track.

[steamer_ctn]

That feature is way off. I get derailed cars when I use the minimum of Dynamic Brake. I am glad I didn't have this problem when I was running. Brian

If you follow the link in the thread that you have quoted you will ultimately be pointed to a derailment test route.

This test route was built to demonstrate that the feature has a very close correlation to real world operations as described in Canadian Railway Accident reports.

So is this the route you are using when you get derailments with minimum operation of the dynamic brake, or another route and stock?

It doesn't...in OR there is a notification in the F5 Train Driving Info window that a car ( or cars ) have derailed, nothing else happens.

OR at the moment only provides a derailment "notification" because I suspect that a lot of stock and train consists are not accurately set up to real world standards (as demonstrated by the early posts in this thread).

[eric]

Hopefully this can be turned on and off...

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[R. Steele]

If you follow the link in the thread that you have quoted you will ultimately be pointed to a derailment test route.

This test route was built to demonstrate that the feature has a very close correlation to real world operations as described in Canadian Railway Accident reports.

So is this the route you are using when you get derailments with minimum operation of the dynamic brake, or another route and stock?


OR at the moment only provides a derailment "notification" because I suspect that a lot of stock and train consists are not accurately set up to real world standards (as demonstrated by the early posts in this thread).

Which brings me to something I've been thinking about...a special route has been setup to demonstrate (&test) the derailment feature...How about all the legacy MSTS routes that were built to varying standards of craft and care....what impact do they have on the derailment code.

Appears that Eric has a good suggestion...the feature should have an off switch.