Open Rails Install and Win10

[jefffan]

Howdy,

I had MSTS way back when it first came out ( I was a wee lad then). Now I'm itching to get back in the game.

I ordered MSTS off Amazon (won't be here for a while due to the world currently) but remembered about Open Rails. After looking into OR ( and learning that my AMD/Intel card may not even run MSTS) I finally settled on going with OR exclusively, but I have a couple of questions...


1. The install guide for OR states that 3.1 .net Framework is required. I'm assuming this is still required for Win10? I ask because I do not see on the Microsoft download website.

2. If I wanted to start running OR before MSTS gets here, will I be able to run non-OR routes and stock ( MLT Solider Summit for example) or should I wait before trying it? I know OR doesn't play well with old MSTS files, but does it apply to older payware items as well)

Thanks for the help.

[geepster775]

The guide is a bit dated, current OR versions require .net 4.7 and walks you through installation IF deficient. (XP no longer supported beyond 1.3 because of that)

Old payware should install fine and not need any scenery assets off the MSTS discs. Freeware routes are another matter. Old payware is workable physics-wise, just may need some tweaking in terms of smoke density. Newer payware built specifically for Open Rails does not have any problems.

Please avoid installation of either program in any variant of the program files folder. There is an MSTS install guide for modern OS'es at Steam4me. Plenty of youtube vids for OR installation without MSTS, directory structure needs are much simpler.

MSTS on 10 is a total crapshoot. Some are lucky, others not. Very irregular success patterns.

[cjakeman]

The guide is a bit dated, current OR versions require .net 4.7 and walks you through installation IF deficient. (XP no longer supported beyond 1.3 because of that)

.NET 3.1 is needed for the Release Edition of Open Rails (v1.3.1) but .NET 4.7 is needed for the Testing and Unstable Editions.

At the next release (v1.4), the Installation Guide will be changed to specify .NET 4.7

[jefffan]

Thanks guys for the responses. Probably should have figured YT would have been a help. LOL.

[jefffan]

Ok guys final questions.

1. I got OR installed and running (saved to C://Open Rails). I'm currently downloading the Scenic Sub Starter route, but a little lost on adding new equipment. The Scenic Sub Installer asks to define where to install future TrainSimulations products (the default is C://TrainSimulations). Is this correct? I reviewed the manual (which is extremely detailed) and created the ORTS root folders (Global/Trains/Routes/Sound). So should it go under the Routes folder that I setup?

2. Another question about older payware. Let's say I wanted to run the DW BN SD40-2's on the route. Would I have to download them into the Trainet folder of ORTS, or create a fake MSTS root folder(Global/Trains/Routes/Sound) to install into(Since it wasn't designed for Open Rails)?

Hopefully these questions aren't too confusing. Just trying to understand everything before I get neck deep. LOL

[geepster775]

The starter route (and all other OR designed routes from Trainsimulations) utilize a different type of texture format that Open Rails will concentrate on going forward but MSTS (the application) has no knowledge of. If you try to run these routes containing the new formats in MSTS, it will puke, boink and error.

Because of this, Trainsimulations has decided to move their new routes into a separate ORTS folder away from all the MSTS routes. They are trying to start fresh in the rolling stock aspects, keeping all the old, low poly shapes, ineffective MSTS physics out of their Open Rails-only installation. The route installer process suggests the name of that installation (Trainsimulations) and all subsequent OR routes you might buy from them will be added to this installation.

An Open Rails installation is little more than a folder name with 4 sub folders

INSTALLATION FOLDER NAME - Top tier
- GLOBAL - contains the track and road systems shared by all routes in this installation
- ROUTES - contains the route folders
- SOUND - contains any ancillary sounds needed by the routes - this one may or may not be present
- TRAINS - contains the Consists and Trainset subfolders.

Most people coming from an active MSTS installation, provided they installed their MSTS according to the Steam4me tutorial, likely have a "1MSTS" folder that contains all their MSTS routes and content. The 1MSTS folder contains the above 4 folders along with a bunch of other crap embodying the basic MSTS file structure, most of which beyond the above 4 folders, Open Rails does not need anymore. All older payware routes need to stay in the "MSTS installation", even though that MSTS installation is playable in Open Rails.

Inside Open Rails, under the Options, Content tabs is where you make Open Rails "aware" of the various differing installations. Most people have a "1MSTS installation" containing the legacy MSTS content, and a "Trainsimulations installation" for the new generation of content. You can switch between running MSTS routes and Open Rails routes just by selecting the different installations you want to use from the top-most pull down menu.

Yes, you can install MSTS engine packs (but not routes) into the Trainsimulations installation, but DW locos for MSTS are known to be heavy smokers and need smoke exhaust settings tweaked. When you run the installer for a loco pack, just point the installer to whatever OR installation folder (the 1MSTS or the Trainsimulations folders) you want it to go to. It will install properly into the Trains/Trainset from there.

One other word of caution. With MSTS, the routes and trainsets existed as subfolders inside the basic application root folder containing all the MSTS executables. You cannot do this with OR. OR executables need their own separate folder, away from the content folders. The folders containing the installations (the "1MSTS" and "Trainsimulations" and any others you might make) that contain routes and trainset content should never be a subfolder of the executables folder. The OR updater process deletes unknown foreign files that are not relative to the OR executables when the application updates, and it will zap them.

[tabaker]

This makes sense. One thing I don't understand is what the TS Started Pack BNSF also gets zapped. Why isn't the default to set BNSF starter pack up like ZigZag route in its own folder (not in OpenRails folder)? Every time I update Open Rails, it deletes the trains and routes folders. I've moved BNSF starter to it's own location, but was curious what they don't install in their own location when it installs vs being zapped each time ORTS updater runs.

[R. Steele]

...Every time I update Open Rails, it deletes the trains and routes folders. I've moved BNSF starter to it's own location, but was curious what they don't install in their own location when it installs vs being zapped each time ORTS updater runs.

That should not happen...do you have anything in your Open Rails simulator directory other than the files and folders required for the simulator program?

[baldwin]

One thing I don't understand is what the TS Started Pack BNSF also gets zapped. Why isn't the default to set BNSF starter pack up like ZigZag route in its own folder (not in OpenRails folder)?

There should be nothing except Open Rails files within the Open Rails folder structure because by design, when updated EVERYTHING in those folders is deleted before the update is run.

The Trainsimulations installation setup does not place ANY files within the Open Rails folders unless so directed by the user. To avoid much head-scratching and grief, the newer Open Rails files from Trainsimulations should not be added to an existing MSTS setup either.

[kevhead]

I had found MSTS on an old hard drive. I copied it to new computer Drive. Install old stuff to MSTS and new stuff to Trainsimulations. You can switch between MSTS and trainsimulations folders and Be very happy. This also works for the New editor and consist editor.

[tabaker]

When I first installed the ZigZag and BNSF starters, the ZigZag installed to its own directory; however the BNSF installed to my C:\openrail directory. So every time I updated openrail, BNSF got blown away. When I reinstalled BNSF, it went right back to C:\Openrail. Now that I've moved it, everything appears to be stable (doesn't get zapped). I'm still learning. Now that I know, I will only keep openrail in the C:\openrail. Maybe when I first installed ORTS, I was thinking it was structured the same as MSTS, and created my routes and trains in the c:\openrails by mistake, but I thought that was where BNSF wanted to install. I'll keep them separate from my C:\Openrails from here on out. Thanks

[mikeebb]

The standard version of ORTS requires .Net.

[EDITING: for some reason, I got an odd version of a message I responded to.]

With ORTS, I would recommend getting the stable version first. It's old, but has an installer that installs dependencies like .Net if needed. Then, in the opening menu, go into Options and under updates choose the Weekly versions - those have most of the latest fixes and additions, but are relatively stable. ORTS will then check for updates the next time you start it and pull in the latest weekly if you click on the link provided (upper right corner of the Menu box). .Net 4.x is installed by default in Windows 10, but if a program uses a version of .Net and/or Directx that's not already installed Win10 usually will install it on the fly the first time its requested.

[remainder of my original post deleted]