Signalling and Emergency Brake Release Issues!

**csantucci** · 04-11-2020, 06:43

The way to release the emergency brakes is to pass to manual mode, to re-enter the path if you were outside it, and to return to auto mode.
I wonder whether you did hit all reverse points you had.
I doubt that your reverse point is after the red signal, except there is some consist too after the signal, and except you have a waiting point before such signal. Can you attach a picture of the MSTS activity editor showing that path portion?
Can you attach also a screenshot with the dispatcher info HUD visible, as well the track monitor, just before the red signal?

**geepster775** · 04-11-2020, 08:09

Originally posted by meeshu

Activity requires several forward and reversing moves to collect the three cuts of cars. The activity seems to work fine until the second to last reverse move to reverse into siding to collect the last cut of cars.

The reverse point was placed after a set of signals in the Activity Editor. But when running the activity, the signal before the reverse point is red!! It should be at least a yellow aspect to allow passing the signal to the reverse point (surely?)!?

Why is the signal blocking progress to the reverse point?

Unlike MSTS, in Open Rails you don't employ reverse points to do simple forward and reverse movement drilling/doubling exercises. You use manual mode instead, even venturing off path briefly if required. Once you get back on path per track monitor indication and are done drilling/doubling, you can return to auto mode. If you need to go past a red signal for headroom while in manual mode, you just tab for permission. If there is no conflicting dispatcher authorized movement for AI traffic, you will get permission. If you don't get permission, pending AI traffic is the reason.

**wwhall** · 04-11-2020, 08:44

Like geepster775 said. I've built a few activities for myself involving switching. When I build the path, I usually just build a point A to point B path on the main (unless I need a passing path or I want a "hard meet" somewhere). Then, when I want to switch, I just go into manual mode, do the switching, and--when my train is back on path on the main, go back to auto mode. One other trick--if your train is off the main (and a following train or opposing train will be using the main), line the switch back to the main after your train is off of it. The following or opposing train will then have a clear path on the main. I can't say that this works on every route, but it has worked on several that I've made activities for. That's pretty much how real railroading can work.

**meeshu** · 04-11-2020, 09:37

Thanks for all the comments.

Enclosed is a screenshot of the activity in the area of concern.

MSTS_ORTS_Activity_Signal_Problem.jpg

My train comes from the left. Signal to the right with the reverse point just behind the signal.

Total of six reverse points in this activity. All previous four reverse points in this activity were reached successfully (according to the Track Monitor) prior to the difficulty in reaching this fifth reverse point. No consist to be collected after this fifth reverse point, and there is no waiting, and no AI traffic as of yet.

I can't seem to bring up the Dispatcher Window (Control + 9 keys, I believe?)? Tried numerous times, but it doesn't seem to appear anywhere (minimized or not)!?

I took some screenshots of the activity with the Track Monitor and other data displayed which might be of use (instead)?

MSTS_ORTS_Activity_Nearing_Signal.jpg MSTS_ORTS_Activity_Nearing_Signal_2.jpg MSTS_ORTS_Activity_Past_Signal.jpg

I now notice the thick red line in the Track Monitor after passing the signal (signal was red initially, but changed to yellow before reaching the signal). I believe this red line might be the End of Track Authority(?) This is effectively the same as a stop signal(?) Where did this EoTA come from? I don't recall seeing anything in the AE, unless I missed it?

So this EoTA is causing my train to go into emergency brake!? And to pass this point requires the "permission of the dispatcher"(?)

**slipperman** · 04-11-2020, 10:40

Hi,
I'm not too knowledgeable about this, but if your train comes from the left, what's the purpose of the reverse point just beyond the signal? It will, surely mark the end of the path and you'd need to reverse at it and return down the track you approached on! If anything, shouldn't it be just beyond the following points (switch) so you can reverse around the curve?

Cheers,
Ged

**wwhall** · 04-11-2020, 11:31

Originally posted by meeshu

Thanks for all the comments.

I can't seem to bring up the Dispatcher Window (Control + 9 keys, I believe?)? Tried numerous times, but it doesn't seem to appear anywhere (minimized or not)!?

Do you have Dispatch Window box checked in the OpenRails Options under the General Tab?

I would suggest that you read the OR Manual--it does talk about Reverse Points in section 10.6. I have just about quit using Reverse Points for most applications for Player Trains. They are necessary for AI trains at times, and, especially for Extended AI shunting. One of the great advantages of NOT using Reverse Points in switching activities is that Reverse Points often require the player to execute switching moves in the exact order that the activity designer intended. With the manual switching option, the player can make switching moves in whatever order he or she thinks best. As one who has worked in railroading and around switching operations, I find that sim activities are often designed to be executed in the manner that makes for fast or easy switching moves, but fails to account for how a real-life train crew would have to execute it without running the conductor or brakeman back and forth the full length of a train a dozen times, Nor do they account for the train crew having to connect air hoses ("lacing up the train" in railroad slang), setting or releasing ("knocking down") handbrakes on cars, making air tests, putting on an EOT device ("FRED") on the rear of the train, etc. I design and run my activities prototypically. For example, I ran an "out of the box" activity that I downloaded--running it first as a game, ignoring all prototypical practices. It took about 2 hours to run, about what its creator estimated. Then I ran it prototypically, following the General Code of Operating Rules (GCOR). It took over 8 hours. That's the difference between a game and a simulator.

**R. Steele** · 04-11-2020, 13:32

meeshu -- you might increase your productivity and learn the simulator more quickly if you confined your efforts to either OR or MSTS...also you appear to confuse yourself ( and others ) by conflating aspects of the two simulators. A lot of what was necessary in MSTS to learn -- is becoming increasingly irrelevant to OR.

Reading the OR manual is a good start...

**meeshu** · 04-11-2020, 17:16

Comments noted, thanks.

The reverse point was positioned where it is so that my train clears the rear switch before reversing through that switch. If I placed the reverse point (just) before the signal, my train would not clear the rear switch and therefore the switch would not be able to be switched.

Ahh, so the Dispatcher Window has to be enabled via ORTS Options first before attempting to display it via the Control + 9 keys!

I did look/read parts of ORTS pdf manual, but what I read did NOT mention anything about enabling Dispatcher Window in Options first!?

Dispatcher Window screenshot of train just before signal. The End of Track Authority appears just after the signal, but is not shown in the Dispatcher Window!?

MSTS_ORTS_DW_Before_Signal.jpg

So what happens when you have to proceed past an End of Track Authority?

**R. Steele** · 04-11-2020, 17:45

Originally posted by meeshu

Ahh, so the Dispatcher Window has to be enabled via ORTS Options first before attempting to display it via the Control + 9 keys!
I did look/read parts of ORTS pdf manual, but what I read did NOT mention anything about enabling Dispatcher Window in Options first!?

Chapter 6 OR Options -- 6.1 General Options --

6.1.2 Dispatcher window
It is suggested to always select this option. When this option is selected, pressing <Ctrl+9> at runtime
creates an additional window like the following. This window coexists with the main Open Rails window,
and <Alt+Tab> switches between it and the Open Rails window. See the related option Fast fullscreen
Alt+Tab.
Through this window you can monitor train movements and also influence them, by setting signals and
switches. A complete description of the dispatcher window can be found here.

...and 7.5 Dispatcher Window

**R. Steele** · 04-11-2020, 17:50

Originally posted by meeshu

So what happens when you have to proceed past an End of Track Authority?

Search "end of authority" in manual

**geepster775** · 04-11-2020, 19:28

End of authority happens when you arrive at the genuine end of the path, you come upon a switch lined against you when in manual mode, or you come upon a reverse point.

Your end of authority issue only exists there because you are improperly employing reverse points to handle player switching moves. Stop deploying reverse points in the wrong situations, and you no longer have any end of authority problems

**geepster775** · 04-11-2020, 19:34

You need checkboxes for Dispatcher window under general tab, and Fast Full Screen Alt-Tab under video. When those are checked, you can hit CTRL 9 to activate dispatcher screen when in full screen game mode, and then Alt-Tab to bring dispatcher screen to the surface. When done, Alt-Tab again to bring the game back to the surface.

**meeshu** · 04-11-2020, 20:06

Comments noted.

I did read sections 6.1.2 and 7.5, but it did not mention selecting Dispatcher Window option in the General options tab, that's why I missed it.

What are wrong situations for reverse points?

**csantucci** · 04-12-2020, 03:11

Hi meeshu, when I asked about the dispatcher HUD I didn't mean the dispatcher info window, but the dispatcher info HUD that you get on the main OR window when you press about five times Shift-F5. But it's no more needed now, as your pictures have provided enough info.
Back to your problem: the reverse point is very near to the End of Authority marker (that is where the trailing switch is). So probably to hit the reverse point you brake too late and pass over the EOA marker, getting the emergency stop.
There are some ways out:
1) Pls take note that there is an advantage with respect to MSTS in hitting reverse points: when the reverse point becomes green in the Track Monitor, you can already stop and reverse: you don't need to hit the reverse point if this is already green. This way you can brake a bit farther from the EOA marker
2) If instead the reverse point doesn't get green, you really have to hit it. In this case proceed veeery slowly, and in any case stop before the EOA marker, than creep a bit more, until the reverse point vanishes.
3) You may modify the path and move the reverse point after the trailing switch, and this way you have more space to reverse.
4) There is of course also the solution suggested by others, that is not to build the path for all the shunting, and to freely run in auto mod

I'm instead not sure about what happens when passing to manual mode before a reverse point. Of course you can move freely, but I don't know if you are considered to have hit the reverse point after having returned to auto mode.