Mid East Plus Deltic - Strange Behaviour (OR MG)

[NorthernWarrior]

Duplicate of a post I made at Train Sim Safe House:

I am doing Part 3 of Mick Clarke's Mystery Tour, where you start off from Lincoln heading towards Sleaford with a Deltic on the front.

First part of the journey uneventful and the loco accelerating and behaving okay. However after passing through Sleaford and back on the line towards Spalding, found it difficult to accelerate, almost as if slipping though no visual warning of this though I did eventually get up to 80 MPH after crawling through the notches.

Now having departed March, cannot get above 15 - 16 MPH, loco will not pull at all. All brakes are released and initialised but notching up the expected speed just drops as does the actual speed, no slipping. The only thing that seems a bit odd is calling up the F9 operations window there is an unknown and unseen vehicle (with red identifier) in front of the Deltic which is in green and presumably should still be the front of the consist. Have I picked up and coupled some invisible item that was obstructing the track, maybe in the Sleaford area?

[NorthernWarrior]

Update...

After coming to a stand at Cambridge, I could not move the train at all.

Tried uncoupling the mysterious object on the front which was then shown as "train ahead" on the Track Monitor.

Went into Alt-F9, didn't delete anything but clicked through the list. Returned to player train and suddenly off like a bat out of hell...

Must have been a gremlin!

[csantucci]

Maybe the ghost train was created just when you were in the section where such train was created, so you didn't get a red signal. This could have been occurred if you were ahead of scheduled time.

[csantucci]

I run the first 10 minutes of the activity. At startup I noticed that at the left of the player train there is a stopped "trap" train, that won't start before the player train in OR. Maybe it does start before the player train in MSTS, slowing down it, so that it gets a red before the ghost train that Vern encountered. Instead in OR the player train has no trains in front of it, so it can run at max speed and therefore it may arrive too early where the ghost train is created. My guess.

[NorthernWarrior]

I did tab (successfully) past a red signal at Sleaford to enter a single line section and I believe it was after that, the problems started. However why would the oncoming train be invisible? The only items that aren't showing up properly on Mid East Plus are some of the DMU trailer cars, where I haven't got round to removing the incomplete Effects section of the eng files which stops them appearing in OR (known issue). However a trailer car would not be running without a powered car attached, that would be visible.

Also once the player train is occupying a block section that ought to inhibit any AI from spawning.

Even after ditching the oddity I now find the "2" view will not focus correctly on the lead vehicle, even after doing the loco/cab change part of the activity where you run onto the Barrington Quarry branch.

Still at least I can now push on and finish the activity, just left with an unsolved mystery!

[brace2011]

I did tab (successfully) past a red signal at Sleaford to enter a single line section and I believe it was after that, the problems started.

Don't tab - there is a 'blocker' which moves after a few minutes. By tabbing you have collected the blocker on the nose which causes the problem

[NorthernWarrior]

Well would you believe it, the little culprit was waiting for me at Cambridge on the way back, as you can see from the F9 window on the below screenshot. This time bringing up Alt-F9 and clicking through the list of trains only succeeded in crashing the sim. I don't know whether the author of the route Mick Clarke is still about these days and where he posts, but wonder if he could shed any light on the conundrum...

[NorthernWarrior]

Update - confirmed on TSSH I picked up an invisible "blocker" consist at Sleaford after Tabbing past a red signal. So possibly a bug in OR/OR MG signalling logic if it allows a player train into a section occupied by a blocker.

[geepster775]

What is a 'blocker' consist? We don't need those invisible artificial work-arounds anymore, do we?

signed,
Open Rails

[NorthernWarrior]

What is a 'blocker' consist? We don't need those invisible artificial work-arounds anymore, do we?

signed,
Open Rails

I must admit I had never heard of the concept until yesterday, but there is actually a file for it on UKTS and was included on the Mid East Plus CD as part of the installer. It appears to be an invisible train that is placed to artificially keep a signal at danger until the time the activity author wants the player train to move off. Must admit I don't really see the point, why not just use an actual light engine to occupy the block? MEP is quite an old route now and not really optimised for OR (as testified by the DMU cars which don't show up due to incomplete Effects entries) but it is a brilliant piece of work offering a huge network to drive around and many complex activities.

[brace2011]

What is a 'blocker' consist? We don't need those invisible artificial work-arounds anymore, do we?

Don't forget that Mid East Plus, and this activity, were designed before OR became truly viable. It simply serves to demonstrate that OR is pretty much backwards compatible.

[baldwin]

MSTS could and still can be a bit pernickety about timekeeping. Invisible blockers were introduced to make sure that the player did not leave early. Those on the NWE route need the eng file tweaking to get them to run faster.

[brace2011]

Must admit I don't really see the point, why not just use an actual light engine to occupy the block?

If you use an actual light engine it has to go somewhere when the player train is to be released from behind the red. However, an invisible blocker only needs to move a few yards to the end of its path and then disappears. When an invisible object disappears there isn't much evidence - and that is what is wanted here.

Martin

[NorthernWarrior]

No more unrealistic than a short range AI disappearing in front of you, because your train is running late...

Anyhow, no wish to labour the issue any further, the mystery is solved, maybe the thread title should be changed to "Misadventure With Blocker" or something.

[Shawmut]

If you use an actual light engine it has to go somewhere when the player train is to be released from behind the red. However, an invisible blocker only needs to move a few yards to the end of its path and then disappears. When an invisible object disappears there isn't much evidence - and that is what is wanted here.

Martin

Invisi (and some not so invisible) locos were used by a number of North American activity designers; Ed Cook and Denis Gionet come to mind.

For example, Ed used these to act as blockers in his CP471 activity on Rogers Pass; you are held up at the end of Field yard while a couple of trains enter before the dispatcher allows you to leave. Today, of course, OR's waiting points will take care of this problem, but to Ed's credit I've found that his blockers actually move at the proper rate in either MSTS or OR. And he also used invisi locos to carry .sms dispatcher messages from his own voice recordings, so instead of getting a pop-up you'd hear Ed voicing both the engineer and the dispatcher! Highly entertaining activities.