New Metro North Activities

[crstagg]

Charles, there is an entry in the engine files for the Pantographs, right near the bottom.

Horn ( 0 1 0 )
Vigilance ( 0 1 0 )
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )
PantographToggle2 ( 1 1 1 )
PantographsToggle_4 ( 0 1 1 )
Headlights ( 0 0.25 1 0 )
Wipers ( 0 1 0 )
BellToggle( 0 1 0 )

This is in the Engine file and why I was asking this question, because checking other "Eng" files, this is the only one that has these three entries.

Is there some way that OR can identify one of those to raise them for AI Locos? The other Electrics in the Activity all have the Pantographs raised correctly, so I was wondering where or what is the difference with these particular ones? When used as the Player Train the pantographs raise accordingly, only when used as traffic they have this issue.

Anyone have experience writing "ENG" files?

Thank you in advance and thank you Charles for your response.

Those entries are after the EngineOperatingProcedures entry which is normally the LAST entry in the Engine section of an ENG file. Perhaps those entries are not being read. Try moving them to before the Sound and Name line entries.

The reason I could not find them is I did a search for "Pan", found the text about the Pantograph in the EngineOperatingProcedures and quit looking because I assumed that it was the end of the file.

[crstagg]

BTW the PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 ) is a TwoState control. TwoState control is defined as ControlName( <on-value> <off-value> <default-value> )
That makes ( 0 1 1 ) appear to define the default to equal OFF. Try changing it to ( 0 1 0 ).

[Don6218]

Thank you Gerry and Charles. I though maybe there was a way OR would recognize the Value to put the Pantograph Up, like the OR Statement for the Trees on the track, or the Speedometer number change.

I will try as you have suggested. Yes, Charles, that is exactly what I did, I was looking at the Eng File and thought that is an odd order to put things. I will make some changes and see what happens. I have back-ups.

The clarification on what the numbers actually mean helps me a lot.

[crstagg]

Another point. The data name is PantographToggle# NOT Pantgraph <space> # as in "PantographsToggle_4 ( 0 1 1 )".
And there is no "s" at the end of the data name.
And why is there a "4" and no "3"? Are there really four Pantographs on this engine?

[Don6218]

Mnrr m2

Ok, I updated to Version U2019.08.23-0936 just to update. I tried switching the Numerical values on the MNRR M2 Locomotives but still no operation of the Pantographs. I now put it as the Player Train and pressing the "P" key does nothing to them. They work in Shape Viewer and no errors show up pertaining to the operation of these Locomotives in either Con Builder or Route Righter.

The Acela 2020 as Player Locomotive and the TT ACS-64 both work properly. I know there is an update to the Eng Files of the MNRR Locos, I tried them both ways, with and without the update but no difference. I included the engine files in my first post if they are needed to look at.

Also here is the OR Log if it may be of any help. Thank you all.
OpenRailsLog.zip

[mmax45581]

The pantograph seems to be recognised as Panto 2 so you have to press Shift+P for it to go up.

[Don6218]

The pantograph seems to be recognised as Panto 2 so you have to press Shift+P for it to go up.

Yes I did try this and no change, they did not move when I switched it to be the Player Train, yes it was in a consist made with C-B.

[Don6218]

Well I made some adjustments, really I found a "(" in the wrong place/spacing and now the Player Locomotive Pantographs work using "Shift + P", but the AI trains of M2's are still down. 50% done! Yeah.

Is there an Open Rails "Statement" that can raise all pantographs contained in a specific activity? Apparently OR recognozes the Pantograph2 command sequence, but only for these Player Locomotives. Another suggestion elsewhere made me look at these locomotives again, in that it is the "B" end that has the Pantograph, all the others (eg: Acela, AEM-64 etc) all have either one at each end or just at the "A" end of the locomotive.

Apparently Open Rails does not recognize this type of locomotive, where two units operate together to form a "Locomotive" with only one power source (single pantograph) so this may be what OR is having trouble with? Only a guess.
Another solution, at least for me would be to have all these M2's have the Pantograph always up, I do not normally Drive these, they are most always AI's.

Thank you all again for the suggestions.

[crstagg]

From the readMe

"For questions concerning anything EXCEPT the AUDIO:-Michael Kurras
kurrasrailroads@gmail.com "

[crstagg]

Downloaded the loco set. Tried various setting combinations for Pantograph Toggle. Appears OR is not utilizing the default setting no matter what value is used.

Did notice something odd about the package. The consists provided are multiple A-B sets of the same locos rather then different sets.
i.e.
8404-8403-

8404-8403-

8404-8403-

8404-8403
rather than:

8404-8403-8438-8437-8502-8501-8662-8661

[crstagg]

Another odd thing I found. As stated above the A unit has one Pantograph at the rear of the the Engine. The B unit has none. Opening an A unit with Shape Viewer selecting Animation and selecting Pantograph #1 then clicking on Animate raises the Pantograph. Nothing happens if Pantograph #2 is selected. e.g. Shape Viewer considers the one Pantograph to be #1.

But when the engine is run OR pressing the P key for Pantograph #1 does nothing. It requires the OR key sequence for Pantograph #2 of Shift-P to animate the Pantograph. e.g. OR considers the one Pantograph to be #2.

Will need to install this engine in a MSTS-Bin mini-install to test it there. Will report back later.

[Don6218]

Another odd thing I found. As stated above the A unit has one Pantograph at the rear of the the Engine. The B unit has none. Opening an A unit with Shape Viewer selecting Animation and selecting Pantograph #1 then clicking on Animate raises the Pantograph. Nothing happens if Pantograph #2 is selected. e.g. Shape Viewer considers the one Pantograph to be #1.

But when the engine is run OR pressing the P key for Pantograph #1 does nothing. It requires the OR key sequence for Pantograph #2 of Shift-P to animate the Pantograph. e.g. OR considers the one Pantograph to be #2.

Will need to install this engine in a MSTS-Bin mini-install to test it there. Will report back later.

Yes, this is what I am trying to understand, they are run as a Pair eg: 8404_mnrr_m2a & 8405_mnrr_m2b and they share one pantograph at the "B" end of the m2a unit, the m2b unit has none, but it is still listed as an engine. Perhaps if the two units were considered a "Single Unit" such as in the case of an Articulated Locomotive with two "engines" in one locomotive. Just a thought.

It is a puzzle to be sure, the way OR is interpreting the files. Thank you for your help on this Charles.

[crstagg]

Well I started experimenting and could not stop. First I tested with one of the default electrics.

EXP#1 ENG HHP-8 (no edits this is original MSTS)
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )

Shape Viewer Animation
Pantograph 1 selected
--- Initial down
--- Front raises
Pantograph 2 selected
--- Initial down
--- Rear raises

MSTS-Bin
--- Rear Pantograph UP at start
--- Shift P controls Rear
--- Front Pantograph not antimated

ORTS
--- Both Pantographs DOWN at Start
--- Shift P raises Rear

EXP#2 ENG HHP-8 (Edited to MSTS-Bin level)
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )
PantographToggle2 ( 0 1 1 )

Shape Viewer Animation
--- No change same as above

MSTS-Bin
--- Both Pantographs UP at start
--- P key Controls Rear & Shift P controls Front

ORTS
--- Both Pantographs DOWN at start
--- P key Controls Rear & Shift P controls Front

EXP#3 ENG HHP-8 (Edited to MSTS-Bin level plus changed PantographToggle so that #2 sould be down at start)
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )
PantographToggle2 ( 0 1 0 )

MSTS-Bin
--- Rear UP and Front DOWN
--- P key Controls Rear & Shift P controls Front

ORTS
--- Both Pantographs DOWN at start
--- P key Controls Rear & Shift P controls Front

Conclusion: MSTS-Bin uses the Default value in the PantographToggle parameter and ORTS does not.
Next I tried the same with the MSRR M2s

Exp #4 M2 (Panagroph parameters unedited)
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )
PantographToggle2 ( 1 1 1 )
PantographsToggle_4 ( 0 1 1 )

Shape Viewer Animation
Pantograph 1 selected
--- No activity
Pantograph 2 selected
--- Initial down
--- Rear raises & Lowers

MSTS-Bin
--- Pantograph UP at start
--- Shift P controls Pantograph

ORTS
--- Pantograph DOWN at start
--- Shift P controls Pantographs (Note: The consist has 4 A units and 4 Bunits. Using Shift-P raised/lowered all Pantographs in the consist.

EXP #5 M2 (Edited Panagraph Parameters to only one entry since there was only one Pantograph on the engine.)
PantographToggle1 ( 0 1 1 )
Results same in all instances as in EXP #4.

Spent some time looking at these engine files and found some more discrepencies. Did a Google search for "Budd M2" and found some specifications for it on Wikipedia that made me question where the same entries in the engine files came from. Listed first is the value in the Engine file then the value from the Wikipedia article:
Mass ( 90t ) 50,802KG ( about 56t )
MaxPower ( 700kW ) 4x 160 hp (120 kW) GE 1259A DC motors or 480kW
MaxVelocity ( 125mph ) 100 mph (design) 80 mph (service)

I could cite more differences, but with just these basic items so different what would be the purpose.

Conclusion: The M2 engine files need a LOT of editing.

[Don6218]

Yes, that was my conclusion as well, well beyond my knowledge & capabilities. It would be nice if we could get the Pantogrphs into the Up position on the AI units, the Loose Consist Units could follow.

Maybe something an Engine Builder would consider modifying-rebuilding? Since so many are utilized on this (Metro-North) and the NEC route in general.

Thank you Charles for your work on this.

[csantucci]

Hi Charles,
I got a message from a German OR user with a similar complaint about OR not behaving like MSTSbin in a specific case, but I couldn't reproduce it. All engines I tested worked as desired.
Only a comment about your thorough tests: you get different results for OR in EXP #1 and EXP #2 (in the first case only a panto raises, in the second one both are raised). ORTS does not consider the PantographToggle1 and PantographToggle2 lines, so, if the addition of the PantographToggle2 line is the only difference between the two cases, you should get the same result. I just tested and was able to raise both pantographs (rear panto with P and front panto with Shift-P) also without the PantographToggle2 line.