Open Rails unresolved Issues Please?

[pcohen]

I have been trying the not so new Open rails this Week, quite Impressed with the Actual Layout,looks a lot better than MSTS.
However there are a Few Hiccups that I need to sort out.

Since MSTS came on the market some Years ago I have actually learnt something about Creating Consists with my own Diesels, Steam Loco's and my own Rolling Stock, (Some not to Time Era/Period) but do look Great. I have loads of mixes and matches saved my on my Hard Drives.

These Consist Combinations Have worked fine for for me over the Years and a Few are currently in use in other Routes at the moment.

But, I have spent most of the Weekend trying to put them into PRR EAST in the usual manner i.e using the Trainset and Consist folders but they are not showing up in the Loco list when it loads.

I have done this loads of times before with no problems at all, apart from a mistake last Week when I Clicked on the wrong Loco & wound up with an unwanted CLASS50 Diesel. although it worked my consists did not. These consists work perfectly OK in the following Routes:- Dorset Coast, Gold Spike, all MONON Route Versions, Surfliner 2.2 and Thames Mersey. so cannot understand why they wont work in the PRR EAST Route?

The other Problem I have is the GUI Screens in PRR EAST. Is it Open Rails or the Creators of the PRR EAST that Have Changed these.

As a preference I prefer the ones I've been using these past Years.

I can understand a new Open Rails Setup and the PRR EAST Setup but why should they mess with the GUI Screen Settings. Have tried to put my own prefered GUI Screens back in but it doesn't work.

Some of these Items have been mentioned in Recent Posts but as yet not resolved.

Many thanks

Paul.

[Vince]

I assume you installed the route following the instructions to the letter? i.e. As a separate MINI Route Install

If you have installed it in ANY other way you are on your own.

If you are attempting to run the route in MSTS expect less than stellar performance. (as in very poor frame rates, crashing due to high detail ect.)

Please post a screen showing the problem GUI. I cannot read minds and there is a lot of GUI. Please be specific.

If using Open Rails one of the requirements listed in the ReadMe documentation is to attach the OpenRailsLog.txt file with a bug or problem report.
You enable LOGGING by placing a CHECK MARK in the box on the Open Rails opening screen. (Commonly called the 'Splash' screen.)

Regards,
vince

[pcohen]

Hi Vince, Thanks for quick reply.

Currently having an issue with my Mini_Loader have uninstalled and Reinstalled it several times now but when I Double click on It to select the Route and then Double Click on it to Confirm Route, It tells me I haven't selected a Route?

I am now playing with RouteRiter to try and create a Mini_Route, but it is a very unforgiving Programme, One error with the Key Strokes, It crashes and I have to Start again.

But will get there eventually.

Many thaanks

Paul.

[slipperman]

Hi Paul,
This is an Open Rails Forum - you do not need to use Mini_Loader as OR only loads what it wants! As I've mentioned before, DO NOT use Mini_Loader (or TrainStore) with Open Rails, otherwise you'll be restricted as to what you can run.

If you're having trouble creating a mini-route with Route_Riter, see how you do with my diy_mini_routes.zip from the library - please carefully read, and understand, the instructions.

Cheers,
Ged

[Vince]

Please Follow Install Directions

Hi Vince, Thanks for quick reply.

Currently having an issue with my Mini_Loader have uninstalled and Reinstalled it several times now but when I Double click on It to select the Route and then Double Click on it to Confirm Route, It tells me I haven't selected a Route?

I am now playing with RouteRiter to try and create a Mini_Route, but it is a very unforgiving Programme, One error with the Key Strokes, It crashes and I have to Start again. But will get there eventually.
Many thaanks Paul.

A quick FYI: The PRR East V2 is already packaged as a COMPLETE MINI Route. IOW, everything needed to run the route is already there . . .Everything!!!!
DO NOT USE ANY MINI route 'creator' like Route_Riter or Trainmaster as it will cause problems, bugs and frustrate you needlessly.

In other words if the Install directions are followed all you need do is to:
(1) put the route in a NEW folder named anything what you wish,
(2) In Open Rails Content Screen point OR to that new folder and you are ready to run trains,

Any rolling stock substitutions must be done in the PRR Mini Folder TRAINS sub folders that come with the PRR installer.
I couldn't make it any simpler than that.

Combining the PRR with other routes folders and/or freelancing how you want to install because 'you always do it that way' in will lead to exactly to the problems you have got. This is why the explicit install instructions as a mini install are meant to avoid these problems.

Any further problems please attach (if using OR) the OpenRailsLog.txt file. This is MOST important for diagnosing problems.

regards,
vince

[PXSE]

In Open Rails, the terminology is called an "Installation" and not a "mini-route" (where that term came from long ago, I'll never know, but it always sounded goofy) So what is needed is for one to look in the manual for setting up an installation and leave these MSTS era mini-route creating and rolliing stock hiding tools behind.

A gaming PC can have more than one Open Rails installation. Each installation can have one or more routes. Any routes that share the same installation also share the same Trainset and Consist folder.

An Open Rails installtion only requires 4 basic folders,


a ROUTES folder that contains the relevant routes you want in this installation.

a GLOBAL folder that contains the track systems used by the routes in this installation

a SOUND folder for any unique sounds

a TRAINS folder that contains a TRAINSET and CONSIST sub-folders

New payware routes and any freeware routes that don't require the old default assets can be installed directly to any Open Rails installation by just pointing the routes installer there.

I think Vince has supplied these 4 basic folders. All you need to do is place them on your hard drive and point the open rails app to "find it" via the Options tab, then Content tab.

[Vince]

Mini / Installation; Thanks for the correction of terms.

Also you are correct as to what I supplied for the PRR East 'Installation package.

I also included a dummy Train.exe which is simply a text file renamed with a EXE extension.
This is included only to allow Route_Riter to run the diagnostic tests as RR requires the presence of a Train.exe file name, not the actual executable.

regards,
vince

[rdayt]

It would be nice to be able to have a main Trains folder to use with the various mini routes.
Something easy like a dropdown window in OR.

Randy

[Vince]

Hi Randy,

You are describing the original way MSTS was packaged;
A \ROUTES folder which could be considered a folder of 'mini routes' and
a \TRAINS folder containing all the rolling stock and consists for all the routes, just as you are suggesting.

The Mini Route concept was developed to have only the rolling stock for a particular route to avoid unneeded clutter of incorrect rolling stock taking up HD space. For instance, you won't see the TGV in the \TRAINSET folder for the PRR-East-v2 route.

regards,
vince

[mikeebb]

It would be nice to be able to have a main Trains folder to use with the various mini routes.
Something easy like a dropdown window in OR.

Randy

As Vince says, that's the way the original MSTS is set up. If you Really Really want that (definitely not recommended, and likely to totally crash MSTS - DO AT YOUR OWN RISK), then after installing a mini-route, drag all the FOLDERS within the mini-route to the directory where you have all your regular MSTS stuff. That will merge the mini-route files with your other files. In Open Rails, it should work, but might not, so do it as a copy rather than a move, and be prepared with a backup of other stuff already there in case you have to reinstall it all afterward to undo mixups.

Again, not recommended, STRONGLY. If a route is packaged as a mini-route, it's best to keep it that way. Open Rails works fine with mini-routes - just add them to the list of content locations. If you use MSTS, a route packaged as a mini-route is probably done that way to prevent MSTS from crashing.

[lateagain]

SOME CLARIFICATION ...for those new to Open Rails and those who come to the hobby since Open Rails.

Most here will know this but comments here seem to indicate that we should not assume that all do?

"Mini Route" : The concept of a Mini Route was to enable installation of MSTS to run ONE SPECIFIC ROUTE. As many older MSTS routes depended on using assets from default routes the idea was to have a totally separate install of MSTS for a specific route add-on.

Advantages : Enables you to have a custom stock pack and loads of consists specific to the Add-On Route without having to use Trainstore. ALSO (and IMO the most important) this kept any errors in this specific installation and therefore easier to trace and fix.

Disadvantages : uses more hard disc space. To today's newcomers that may seem absurd but you have to realise that the size of HDDs at the time MSTS came out is now available in pendrives!!!! Therefore no longer relevant unless you're running on a laptop with small HDD.

"Trainstore" : A utility that enabled MSTS to access only items relevant to a specific route and therefore improve MSTS performance and prevent crashes.

Advantages : MSTS had a finite number of Consists that it could run. You could add routes to your hearst contenet but preety sson the stock and consists for ALL of the added routes would bring MSTS down. By storing anything not needed MSTS ran without issues.

Disadvantages : Mainly due to "operator error". Stored stock lost through misuse of the utility. Also if your MSTS installation got too big the time to store stuff became an issue.

"Mini Loader" : This utility was developed for Mid East Plus, a UK route covering the East Coast mainline and some branches in the UK. The stock pack for Mid East Plus (only available as a Mini Route, like PRR East V2) is huge covering just about everything that operated on the route during the BR Blue period. It also came with well over 100 activities with scores of AI consists. No one thought that Trainstore could be needed for a Mini Route BECAUSE no one had built a Mini Route this big before. Mick Clarke approached Mike Simpson who grasped the problem and wrote Mini Loader to solve the problem. In short it's a simpler programme than Trainstore designed specifically for storing unwanted items in complex Mini Routes.

If you have a Mini Route with loads of stock and loads of activities etc. you may find Mini Loader helps loading times in MSTS Mini Routes. NOT needed in OR of course.

OPEN RAILS
Post #6 in this thread pretty much sums it up.

OR is stand alone software.

Content is like "a document/file" that the stand alone software accesses.

IMO this is the hardest concept for those who've stuck with MSTS to come to terms with. Younger members and latecomers to the hobby have to realise that we've ("lifers" like me and many other here) been struggling to make MSTS run well and error free on 20 year old software which originally pushed the envelope of most computers available at it's release. The improvement in PC performance, storage capabilities, graphics, displays etc. etc. is staggering compared to what was available in 2001 and for the years in which all the 3rd party software written to enhance MSTS became available.

Open Rails is a brilliant achievement BUT let's not forget or dismiss ALL the brilliant UTILITY SOFTWARE and of course freeware that was developed to make MSTS what it became. Without MSTS there wouldn't be a fraction of the content that late comers now enjoy in Open Rails.

IN CONCLUSION
Old timers like me KNOW THIS STUFF! It becomes obvious reading the forum nowadays that there are folk coming aboard who don't. The fact that this thread is here at all proves that we should never ASSUME that solutions are obvious or that knowledge is widely shared. That's the whole point of the forum isn't it?

[derekmorton]

A mini route is also required when running a NON standard tsection.dat.

[R. Steele]

...
IN CONCLUSION
Old timers like me KNOW THIS STUFF! It becomes obvious reading the forum nowadays that there are folk coming aboard who don't. The fact that this thread is here at all proves that we should never ASSUME that solutions are obvious or that knowledge is widely shared. That's the whole point of the forum isn't it?

Geoff, well said. Recently, I've seen more new folk coming aboard and these questions are going to be asked again.