Surfliner 2.2/2.3

[seagoon]

Many years ago I bought the Facing Point product (which also came with a cab-view DVD.)

I ran it several times, then shelved it when the freeware "Surfliner" route became available from the library. This allowed me to run Marc Nelson's train-sets on the route.

Then along came v2 and I have been a fan of that ever since it was released, because it extended the line northwards.
I created a couple of Activities for this route (never published them), one based on the trains - moving and static - and the timetable of Amtrak's "Surfliner" in the DVD.
The other was a fictional UP freight coming down from the north and heading to the large UP yard.

I have just downloaded v2.2 and its additional update, v2.3 and am running that original Amtrak service I created.
The additional detail that I've seen on this line is brilliant.
My thanks to the authors and editors (names escape me right now) for keeping this great route so fresh.

Do yourselves a favour and grab it.

[trainlover2923]

I agree excellent route I do enjoy running it.....now I just wish somebody would redo the Cajon pass qmd needles sub and connect with the Seligman sub

[dcarleton]

Surfliner 2.3 with Cajon merged in would be the ultimate epic Southern California experience!

[trainlover2923]

That would be massive....but awesome especially with the directions we could take......start out in l.a. area and go east to either the UP cima sub or go east on the needles sub

[Komachi]

Or the main bit of ATSF traffic we don't currently have, too. Los Angeles-Pomona-San Bernardino.

[trainlover2923]

Oh the possibilities.....I know there is a Cajon pass in the library but the terrain is all wrong I have tried to change it myself but just doesn't look right. Maybe somebody here would like to accept the challenge. Who knows

[seagoon]

Oh the possibilities.....I know there is a Cajon pass in the library ....

To which one are you referring......v1, v2, v3 or v4?

[trainlover2923]

Imo.....doesn't matter which version. Since southern Cal is desert. Been there more times than I really care for.

[mikeebb]

Scratching my bald head wondering about the terrain comment. My impression is that the f/l Cajon Pass routes do in fact have reasonably accurate terrain. What's not right is the texturing and trees - too green, and Real Trees which are actually very scarce out in the high desert and even, except along creeks and in built-up areas, in the LA Basin. Needs more brown (dirt & grass)/rock and joshua trees/creosote bush. The 3dts Cajon route, especially with the 3dtrains scenery upgrade, has much more accurate textures and trees/shrubs.

As for train possibilities: the f/l Cajon routes all run from LA Union Station (in some form) and the Harbor Sub/Alameda Corridor connection to Barstow, via Fullerton and San Bernardino. The original one (with several patches) is worth having because it's ATSF era. Of the others (3, 3ML, 4), my preference is for 4 simply because it has the complete UP line from W.Colton to Mojave as well as modern-era BNSF tracks.

Combining with Surfliner (any) would probably be touchy, because they overlap between LAUS and Fullerton. The track and other features might not match perfectly. The main reason I would see for doing a combo would be to run the Metrolink Inland Empire trains and modern BNSF freights routed via the Olive Sub without having to pause to change routes.

The commercial 3dts route is quite old and desperately needs the 3dtrains scenery update (changing the track from Kuju to Scalerail would be nice, too). It does have a couple of glitches including no connections to the UP line except at Colton Crossing. But it's also the only route that completely covers the high desert, with the BNSF route over Cajon, the UP Palmdale cutoff, and the BNSF (ATSF) Mojave line.

BTW, the Surfliner routes could stand to be a little browner of ground texture in all but the winter (when the weeds grow, briefly), too. The "golden" state is more golden brown than anything else, most of the year, except in the Sierra and north state.

As for other routes or extensions, the LA area has a true wealth of options. I could see a Alameda Corridor to the ports extension being useful as an expansion of Cajon 4, since the ports of LA/Long Beach and nearby industrial areas are where most of the trains on Cajon originate and terminate. Might also be interesting to integrate the LA Junction switching line (beta route in the f/l) with Cajon. The east and west ends of the UP line exist in the Cajon routes, but none of the middle. The former SP line (Alhambra Sub, Sunset route) also has stubs at the east and west ends with none of the middle. Others have mentioned the old Second Sub between LA & San Berdoo, but that's a tricky one: in the ATSF era, consistent with the original Cajon route in the f/l, it was the main passenger (and some wb freight) route, but these days it's a mix of Gold Line light rail, BNSF local freight, and Metrolink (which turns off near Pomona and heads into LA using the old PE San Berdoo line in the middle of the I-10 freeway). Then there's the north end - where Surfliner 2 turns west just north of Burbank, the other line (the old San Joaquin line) continues north then east up Soledad Canyon to Palmdale and Lancaster - a fairly heavy Metrolink commuter route with some UP freight. Then, don't forget the Yuma Sub east of Colton to, well, Yuma AZ (with a branch off to Calexico from Niland), and other stuff in the San Diego area (completing the Escondido/modern Sprinter line, more SD light rail, Santee light rail+freight line, Tijuana light rail+freight line, and for that matter, the Tijuana & Tecate connecting to the old SDA&E route that already exists). In all, SoCal has an embarassment of riches in terms of rail and route possibilities.

[seagoon]

Scratching my bald head wondering about the terrain comment. My impression is that the f/l Cajon Pass routes do in fact have reasonably accurate terrain. What's not right is the texturing and trees - too green, and Real Trees which are actually very scarce out in the high desert and even, except along creeks and in built-up areas, in the LA Basin. Needs more brown (dirt & grass)/rock and joshua trees/creosote bush. The 3dts Cajon route, especially with the 3dtrains scenery upgrade, has much more accurate textures and trees/shrubs................

How does the accuracy of the foliage in the Run 8 version stack up because if I'm right I think that the next version of the sim goes into LA?

Maybe they will do a the coastal route as an add-on.

[P834C]

Imo.....doesn't matter which version. Since southern Cal is desert. Been there more times than I really care for.

Why do non California residents refer to Southern California as a desert? There are deserts in the southern part of the state but the Los Angeles basin is not nor is it even in a desert climate zone. I can look out my window right now and see green trees and grass and not simply because it's almost Spring. Stop the myth. Read the links:

https://boomcalifornia.com/2017/05/22/the-myth-of-a-desert-metropolis-los-angeles-was-not-built-in-a-desert-but-are-we-making-it-one/

https://www.lamag.com/culturefiles/this-is-not-la/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_climate

[seagoon]

Why do non California residents refer to Southern California as a desert? There are deserts in the southern part of the state but the Los Angeles basin is not nor is it even in a desert climate zone. .....

Probably because it is the area depicted and referred to in the train sims - the railroad information refers to them as "desert routes".

Your irritation is along the same lines as any resident anywhere in the world; for example, we get fed up with being considered a land of little more than kangaroos and koalas. No doubt the Pommies are tired of people thinking that it's always raining.

[P834C]

Probably because it is the area depicted and referred to in the train sims - the railroad information refers to them as "desert routes".

Your irritation is along the same lines as any resident anywhere in the world; for example, we get fed up with being considered a land of little more than kangaroos and koalas. No doubt the Pommies are tired of people thinking that it's always raining.

I do believe when talking about train sims that many are referring to the northern half of the various Cajon Pass routes or the Needles or Cima subs as "desert routes".

But in real life many think that the Los Angeles Basin is desert. I believe some people think that because if you arrive from the east or northeast via I-8, I-10, I-40, or I-15 because you cross miles of desert, when they cross the mountains that surround the L.A. Basin that they are still in the desert masked by a large metropolis. Arriving by air can be deceptive also because from the air tree and plant foliage appears sparse.

As for Australia, nope never thought of it that way. But it does appear (from afar) that the Australian interior is sparsely populated. (lol)

[seagoon]

...... I believe some people think that because if you arrive from the east or northeast......because you cross miles of desert, when they cross the mountains that surround the L.A. Basin that they are still in the desert masked by a large metropolis. Arriving by air can be deceptive also because from the air tree and plant foliage appears sparse.

Well, now you can appreciate why people think that it's all a desert.

.......it does appear (from afar) that the Australian interior is sparsely populated. (lol)

It is sparsely populated. The great majority of our population is confined to the coastal strip because the interior is arid in comparison.

Australia-Population-Grid.jpg


As for deserts, Australia is the driest inhabited continent - only Antarctica has less rainfall.
Look at a geographical map and count the number of deserts we have ......... ten of them!
Listed from greatest size to smallest, these are Australia’s ten deserts:

• Great Victoria Desert (348,750sq.km)
• Great Sandy Desert (267,250sq.km)
• Tanami Desert (184,500sq.km)
• Simpson Desert (176,500sq.km)
• Gibson Desert (156,000sq.km)
• Little Sandy Desert (111,500sq.km)
• Strzelecki Desert (80,250sq.km)
• Sturt Stony Desert (29,750sq.km)
• Tirari Desert (15,250sq.km)
• Pedirka Desert (1250sq. km)

So don't complain about your part of California being thought of as a desert.

[trainlover2923]

For the record I never said Los Angeles I said southern California....East of Cajon Pass is desert but west of Cajon pass is not.....and the far East reaches of Los Angeles is considered to be desert. Next time stop and read before you post