Move my #2 unit to the rear - big changes in train performance!

**R. Steele** · 01-18-2018, 10:02

My Train Brake question - when I ran the train with the two engines up front, and an EOT on the rear, it generally took about 8 minutes for the air to fully charge. When removing the EOT, and moving the #2 unit to the rear, it took close to 15 minutes.
Would this be because of a difference in brake physics between the .eng file and the EOT's .wag file?

Neil, if I ran across what you described, yes, that's the first place I would check. Could be other things, but you identified a good starting point.

**charland** · 01-18-2018, 10:21

Hi Gerry,

You know more about running trains in OR then I do, I'm testing a route and one of the operations is to have 4 Geeps up front and 2 SWs pushing from the rear. I want to control the train from the rear helpers, for this to work in OR do I need separate engine files for helpers and seeing as I want to control the train from the rear would the helpers have to be on the head end?

Paul :-)

**CSRX** · 01-18-2018, 10:22

30-40 cars for me, in reality, takes about 3-5 minutes to fully charge. This problem is what I've always had with ORTS, but I adjusted all I could and now it takes only 2-3 minutes to fully charge a train in ORTS, regardless of the amount of cars I have. shrugs.

**R. Steele** · 01-18-2018, 12:08

Originally posted by charland

Hi Gerry,

You know more about running trains in OR then I do, I'm testing a route and one of the operations is to have 4 Geeps up front and 2 SWs pushing from the rear. I want to control the train from the rear helpers, for this to work in OR do I need separate engine files for helpers and seeing as I want to control the train from the rear would the helpers have to be on the head end?

Paul :-)

Paul
I made up a consist from the ConnRiver set ( 4 geeps in front, 26 cars, 2 SW's pushing ) -- if all the locos have cabs then you can use Ctrl+E to move to the last SW and control the train from there.

AFAIK OR is not coded to allow you to ride in the lead geep and control from the last SW...is that what you want to do?
Maybe I'm not understanding what you want to do, you're stretching my railroad knowledge here, did they actually do that, wouldn't it require some sort of modern MU system? Sorry I couldn't be of more help.
Regards, Gerry

**charland** · 01-18-2018, 15:00

Hi Gerry,

I'm doing this now. I have four Geeps on the head end and 120 cars. I started the activity using the SWs as the player consist not attached to the train yet, just being it like they ran around the train. Connected to the train and took about 20 minutes to pump up the air but I'm running the train from the lead SW and everything is working as expected. Moved my number 2 view to the front of the train and 3 is just behind the two SWs.

Yes, in my old farts days they actually did that, a crew at each end.

Paul :-)

**R. Steele** · 01-18-2018, 20:20

Now I get it...thanks for the pictures, in my case worth a couple of 1000 words!! And a crew at each end, to boot!
"your old farts day" --- you mean when granite wheels were standard...before we discovered iron?

That is cool, 120 cars- hmmm - Appears to be a mixed manifest ?empties or loaded? do you know the tonnage they were moving?
Can you post the con here, or PM it, I'd like to try it in OR. That's why I was asking about an accurate tonnage.

**wwhall** · 01-18-2018, 21:47

I've commented elsewhere on this, but I'll sort of repeat. OR appears to use much more realistic times to recharge a brake system, based on more realistic air flows, etc. from the locomotive air compressor. The rub--and it is a big one--is that, in a prototypical MU setup of, say 4 locomotives, all 4 locomotive air compressors can contribute to charging the train line. That does not happen in OR. Also, locomotives not connected with the player locomotive lashup (swing and rear helpers or DPU's) won't even have their compressors run. These are "bugs" in the OR program that need to resolved to make brake charging behave prototypically. OR seems to be sort of halfway there. If you watch in the HUD, when the brakes are released and the brake line starts to recharge, the main reservoir pressure on the player locomotive (and those connected to it) drops, triggering a compressor start when each locomotive main reservoir drops to its specified compressor restart pressure, but the airflow that the compressors other than the player locomotive provide are not taken into account in the time to recharge the train line. And, as I stated earlier, air compressors of helpers/DPU's not in the player locomotive lashup don't start at all.

In prototype DPU setups, the engineer has the option of allowing his/her DPU's to emulate what he/she is doing with the lead units. Or, as frequently is necessary with DPU's operating on a long train on an undulating grade, the engineer has the option of controlling each set of DPU's separately from the locomotives operating on the head end. In railroad terminology, setting up to control the DPU's separately is known as "building the fence." The Run8 simulator will do this. With the "fence up," DPU's operate very similar to the way that manned helpers would operate, except that the lead engineer is controlling his locomotive(s) on the point, plus the helper sets. That is another enhancement that OR needs.

Also, most EOT's and DPU's allow the engineer to dump the air from them, as well as from the lead locomotives, which speeds up a brake application because the air pressure reduction does not have to travel the full length of a train from the lead locomotive. Now, if and when OR accommodates all these features, for better or worse, it would make OR operate way more like a simulator and not a game. That may not please a lot of casual train simmers.

**charland** · 01-19-2018, 06:23

I'll post the consist, have no idea about the tonnage though, I really just picked cars that may have appeared on the train back in the early 80s from memory and what I already had in my library.

Interesting thing about charging the air in the train. It took about 15 minutes to charge and it appeared to stop charging when the pressure reached 66 psi and just sat there. I got tired of waiting so I saved and did something else for a while. When I resumed the activity the brake pressure charged much quicker. Not sure what that was about.

Paul :-)

**charland** · 01-19-2018, 06:42

Sorry, they wouldn't let me post a con file...

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

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The player consist was two of my CV SW1200RSs that I just uploaded. I have made a couple of modifications to bring them closer to GP-9 tractive effort. Canadian National list them as having the same tractive effort as GP-9s in the back of ETTs, so I thought I would do the same. I also changed the brakes on the units, never liked them.

Paul :-)

**qballbandit** · 01-19-2018, 09:22

Thanks very much, Wade. Both for your informative reply, and for keeping on point.

Move my #2 unit to the rear - big changes in train performance!

Move my #2 unit to the rear - big changes in train performance!

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