Open Rails WITHOUT MSTS

[up5799]

I recently rebuilt my gaming computer, and now have a motherboard with an Intel z270 chipset which allows me to run 4K graphics without add on card. I already have a 4K TV/monitor, and now can use it to its full abilities without having to spend 100's of dollars for a Nvidia or AMD video card.

Here's the problem: As we all know, MSTS has a terrible time getting along with Intel built-in video chips. I installed MSTS, and it started, then disappeared. I can run Open Rails, and after copying all my routes, rolling stock, MSTS files, etc onto the new computer everything runs under Open Rails fine. I still am concerned however - what if anything am I giving up by not having MSTS installed (as opposed to being copied but not actually installed) on the computer.

[EricF]

If you have MSTS at least installed (whether or not it runs in your hardware) you at least have all the default Microsoft/Kuju assets that many routes rely on. With no MSTS install, you'll lack the default scenery objects, default rolling stock + default .eng and .wag files, cabviews, and Kuju track.

That means you'll need to run routes that use XTracks or Scalerail, and no default scenery. Payware routes and trains, for instance, will run just fine. More recent freeware routes that intentionally don't use the low-resolution default assets will be fine. You'll just have to check that the routes you want to run don't require any of the default assets. Trains are the easiest to substitute with a 3rd-party consist editor, but remember that you'll also have to deal with the lack of default .eng and .wag files plus cabviews that many freeware stock make use of, so you'll have to be a little more creative with substituting the underlying configuration files and cabviews.

In general, if you own MSTS -- even if it won't run on your hardware -- it's worth installing or copying in its contents from backup just so you have its resources.

[conductorchris]

What you are giving up by running open rails and leaving MSTS behind is the route and activity editors. Goku's new route and consist editor (http://koniec.org/tsre5/) is better than MSTS, so you aren't really sacrificing there. That leaves only the activity editor. There is a path editor in Open Rail's track viewer and Goku's tools can edit the consists in activities and build very basic activities, so you can still go pretty far. I think Goku plans on adding more activity editor features over time.
Christopher

[eric]

You probably won't miss much.

If you do run older routes, you could always copy over the shapes and textures folders from the old machine. Then you aren't missing default shapes or textures, outdated they may be.

[up5799]

Thanks for the info - I imagine others who up grade using Intel's Z270 chipset may be in the same position. A 4K graphics card costs several hundred dollars, and several hundred more for a good one. Being able to run 4K at 60 Hz natively just using the chip on the motherboard is a great savings. Why Intel chips and MSTS don't get along is beyond me...

Anyway, I did copy the old MSTS folders over, so I have all the terrain files. Between that and the open source editors I am not giving all that much up. Hopefully, those features will be incorporated in an upcoming version of Open Rails some time in the future as well.

Jim

[mikeebb]

What you might miss are Route-Riter (at least for me, simply refuses to work, even within the known limits of its use under current Win10, unless it finds the MSTS registry stuff) and the MSTS editors (free/open stuff still doesn't do everything, though it's getting close).

Reminder: be sure to keep your content outside of the Open Rails directory tree. When (not if, though not as common as it was for a while) an OR update fails, it tends to take everything within the OR top directory with it to some bit bucket). Keep the content elsewhere and tell OR where it's at in the Options and you're safe.

Do the latest Intel graphics work well with OR? My recollection is that they tend to run a bit slowly (limited frame rate) compared to even low-end nVidia.

You could copy your entire MSTS installation (including Train.exe) from a backup, but not actually install it. It will probably still run (as long as you don't have AMD graphics) even without all the registry entries. Without actually installing it, you're mainly giving up the registry stuff (which makes it easier for OR to find things; and RR for me complains if the registry stuff isn't there). Also, it's unlikely that the MSTS editors & tools will work right without the registry being set up - but if you can do what you need with the newer tools that doesn't matter. So the main casualty of not installing MSTS is probably even more problems with RR.

[slipperman]

Hi Mike,

What you might miss are Route-Riter ( ... unless it finds the MSTS registry stuff)

Sorry to disagree with you, but I don't believe that is true. I will do some more testing, but have just done a couple of short tests using Route_Riter under Windows 10 where I've removed the MSTS Registry keys. It works as normally, even to changing to, and accepting, a different MSTS installation. Whichever installation is selected, it MUST have a file called train.exe, although this can be a "dummy" (ie a renamed txt file).

Cheers,
Ged

[EricF]

I agree -- I think Route Riter might look for the MSTS Registry entry to locate the MSTS path automatically on its first run, but you can point it to any path you want manually. (Which is how it can be re-pointed for mini-routes and multiple MSTS installs.) It ought to be fine not only on an MSTS-free OR install, but also with multiple "Installation Profiles" and OR.

Route Riter has its own issues due to changes in both Java and Windows security. Those really aren't any fault of Route Riter's; a lot of older applications can hit similar snags. Setting "Run as Administrator" in the .exe file's properties or on the shortcut's properties can head off a lot of them. There have been some helpful posts lately on dealing with Route Riter errors and issues.

[lateagain]

To bring this back to the issue of running routes without MSTS....

As I read it you have to create various folders (as per the OR Manual) and copy the content from the respective MSTS folders of the same name into them?

However as I've only been running OR using routes I've already MSTS "Mini Routed" I don't see any folder structure in my OR install that obviously shows how the necessary created folders (as per the manual) should be located?

TO BE PRECISE.... I'd like to create a "Conn River Route" and "the Buffalo Route" in OR.

Do I just create folders called by those route names anywhere in the top OPEN RAILS folder and just dump all the necessary folders to copy MSTS content into into those named folders? MSTS has a folder structure that we're all used to looking at in any MSTS install but with no such content in my OR install can anyone post a screenshot of their folder structure with any routes installed directly into OR?

For instance should each route in OR have it's unique set of folders (much as a Mini Route does?) or can Global, Trainset etc. be shared by many routes?

Sorry if this all seems "obvious" but until you do anything the first time the "obvious" is not always apparent!?

BTW I note the comments about default content so that also raises the issue of what exactly is needed and where that will fit into thie folder structure?

[R. Steele]

from the manual:
4.4 Using a Non-MSTS Folder Structure
Open Rails uses a subset of the MSTS folder structure to run. You must create a root folder of any suitable
name and it must contain four folders, together with their related sub-folders:
\GLOBAL
\ROUTES
\TRAINS
\SOUND
No other files or folders are required in the root folder. Within the \GLOBAL folder two sub-folders are
required:
\SHAPES
\TEXTURES
Within the \TRAINS folder two subfolders are required:
\CONSISTS
\TRAINSETS
4.5 Original MSTS Files Usually Needed for Added MSTS-Compatible
Content
4.5.1 Original MSTS Files Usually Needed for a Non-MSTS-Folder Structure
A number of MSTS folders and files must be placed into any OR-Specific installation you have created.
These may be obtained from your own MSTS Installation or, as noted below, from Train Sim Forums
\GLOBAL
Within the \GLOBAL folder only the file tsection.dat is required. The most current version is best and it can
be downloaded from many Train Sim forums. Files sigcfg.dat and sigscr.dat are needed if there are routes
that don’t have their own specific files with the same names in their root folder.
\GLOBAL\SHAPES
Many routes use specific track sets, like XTRACKS, UK-finescale etc.
Routes which solely use such sets do not need any of the original MSTS files from GLOBAL, as all required
files come from the relevant track set. These sets can be downloaded from many Train Sim forums. There
are also many routes using super-sets of the original MSTS track sets. These routes will need some or all
the files contained in the SHAPES and TEXTURES subfolders within the GLOBAL folder of your MSTS installation.
\TRAINS
Requirements are similar to routes. Again, only the folders for the trainsets which are actually used are
required, but many third-party trainsets refer to original MSTS files like cabviews and, in particular, sound
files. Many consists refer to engines or wagons from the original MSTS routes but those can be easily
replaced with other engines or wagons.
4.4. Using a Non-MSTS Folder Structure 9
Open Rails Manual, Release x.3804 (draft)
\SOUND
Only very few routes provide a full new sound set, so the original files included in this folder are usually
needed.
\ROUTES
Once all the above directories are populated with files you need only the specific route folder placed into
\Routes to run Open Rails from a non-MSTS directory.
Note that many routes – in particular freeware routes – use content from the original MSTS routes, and
therefore when installing new routes you may find their installation requires files from the original MSTS
routes in order to be properly installed.

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OR specific include files can be used to "share" content with many installations, also using the windows junctions or links function allows content to be shared. Using a folder entitled "OpenRails" in conjunction with include files is outlined in the manual, especially for .eng and .wag files...but it is also applicable to other situations (see thread link below).
Both GLOBAL and SOUND are shared in the above examples...other junction points are also possible.
It just depends upon how you wish to organize your "layout" -- by type, by historic era, by geographic area, etc. - see the discussions at ET (and some here, also) about the use of include files >>> http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...include-files/ for starters.

[baldwin]

Do I just create folders called by those route names anywhere in the top OPEN RAILS folder and just dump all the necessary folders to copy MSTS content into into those named folders? MSTS has a folder structure that we're all used to looking at in any MSTS install but with no such content in my OR install can anyone post a screenshot of their folder structure with any routes installed directly into OR?

Do not create anything under the top Open Rails folder. it will be deleted when you update Open rails.

For instance should each route in OR have it's unique set of folders (much as a Mini Route does?) or can Global, Trainset etc. be shared by many routes?

Either method can be used. Existing MSTS Mini Routes can be added to Open Rails using Options/Content from the opening window.

[Vince]

Have a look at the LIRR download. lirr_install.zip

When the setup instructions are followed it runs all RR tests AND the Sim out of the box with no MSTS present.
Route_Riter runs fine as I did include a dummy train.exe file that allows RR to run with no MSTS presence on the machine.
( RR requires a file named train.exe. It does NOT need to be the actual Microsoft train.exe, just the file name)
The dummy train.exe actually is a text file with a secret message.

regards,