CIMA Sub - Balsh (Balch) Problem - Disappearing AI Train

[Don6218]

Hello again, as I am progressing along the CIMA Sub, I got to Balsh, it is also spelled Balch in the game, ad the approaching AI just evaporates. It is shown in the Dispatch window as approaching, then as it approaches the signal it disappears.

I tried going the through track route, but the AI was also facing a red and on my route. So I suspended the game and restarted a ways back, then on approach I switched to Manual and took to the siding so the AI could continue straight through. Changing the turnout gave me a clear yellow approach into the siding and a red at the other end. As soon as my tail car passed the turnout it changed back for the AI to carry on through and I approached my red at the other end.

As I waited, all was proper then I never saw a sign of the AI. In the dispatch window it should have been visible, but in the game it was not. The Dispatch window showed it approaching when just approaching a visible distance it disappeared.

I am running x3866 OR. It was going so well..............

Almost forgot, Amtrak Rescue.

[R. Steele]

Don, I know from looking at the activities in the AE that AI trains, in some instances, are using short paths. In that case timing would be everything, you have to be at the right point at the right time to see the traffic. Perhaps, that is the problem. Haven't run enough CIMA yet to know for sure, too busy elsewhere. Sorry, could not be of more help.

[Don6218]

Hi Gerry, that is what I was thinking, but that does not explain the way the signals/turnouts are behaving. Unless it is just a OR vs MSTS thing, because the acts were meant for msts.

I am going to try speeding up through one of the sections and see if that produces a different scenario.

I do not use MSTS anymore and I do not have the AE or RE operational. Is there another way to alter the AI timing in Notepad or??

All was good at the previous meets. I have included a copy of the OR log this time if it may help.
OpenRailsLog - West Wind Rescue.txt

[R. Steele]

I do not use MSTS anymore and I do not have the AE or RE operational. Is there another way to alter the AI timing in Notepad or??

Yes.
First go here>> http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/ae_timetable.html and download MSTS_TimeCalc.zip - link at very bottom of page. Whole page is a tutorial on changing arrival & departure times in the AE. Not exactly relevant to the situation you are looking at. Perhaps, it will have some useful information.

You must edit the "Service Definition" line for the particular AI you are having trouble with in both the Activity and Traffic files.
Change the five digit number at the end of the line .... it must be the same in both files.
See the illustration below. Use MSTS TimeCalc to calculate Hours/Mins/Sec to Seconds and you're good to go on a test run.
bandicam 2017-06-07 19-37-01-664.jpg

Oh Yes, I did not see anything in the log that specifically mentions the signal/turnout issue. There are some sound update warnings. I always try to track sound warnings down because too many of them can sometimes cause problems. All the other warnings are beyond my reach or understanding.

[Don6218]

I will see what takes place. Thank you Gerry.

[Don6218]

I altered the times and now the AIs are showing up at good timing spots, BUT, I am still running into Full Reds in both directions because no turnouts are changing. Both trains get the reds at each of the meets, after the first 2 AIs which are working properly.

Now another question, well actually a couple. I thought this situation was supposed to be eliminated in OR, that the first train in position would hold the main and the approaching train would go in the hole.
In the Activity file the Service Definitions are numbered "UiD (1) then UiD (6) - UiD (12), should the UiD numbers be missing like that?

Right now the problem seems to be with the turnouts at the meets. The reason I say this is because going into Manual Mode, and progressing through seems to work for a couple, but then I get the warning "Train is Not on Original Route" even though there is only single track!

The Tank Train Activity seemed to work fine all the way through, this activity just wants to be stubborn! Grrr.
BTW I am using X3874.

[peterman]

I altered the times and now the AIs are showing up at good timing spots, BUT, I am still running into Full Reds in both directions because no turnouts are changing. Both trains get the reds at each of the meets, after the first 2 AIs which are working properly.

Now another question, well actually a couple. I thought this situation was supposed to be eliminated in OR, that the first train in position would hold the main and the approaching train would go in the hole.
In the Activity file the Service Definitions are numbered "UiD (1) then UiD (6) - UiD (12), should the UiD numbers be missing like that?

Right now the problem seems to be with the turnouts at the meets. The reason I say this is because going into Manual Mode, and progressing through seems to work for a couple, but then I get the warning "Train is Not on Original Route" even though there is only single track!

The Tank Train Activity seemed to work fine all the way through, this activity just wants to be stubborn! Grrr.
BTW I am using X3874.

Hi Don... this is where you should have kept the MSTS editors. The problem you describe sounds like there are no "passing paths" in place, you need the AE to check and install if necessary.

Peter

ps... if you're not going to use the AE... then you only need to alter the times of the AI trains in the .act file. The times in the traffic files are only used by the AE.

[geepster775]

In Open Rails, kick off the Track Viewer, select your choice of OR installation, select the route, enter the path editor, select your path, and then click Enable Editing, and then add or delete passing paths at any siding, and then Save Path.

[Don6218]

In Open Rails, kick off the Track Viewer, select your choice of OR installation, select the route, enter the path editor, select your path, and then click Enable Editing, and then add or delete passing paths at any siding, and then Save Path.

The things you learn about with just a mention! Thank you for this. Looks like I will something to do this weekend.

I don't think too many know about this, otherwise it would have been mentioned, I would hope.

[Don6218]

Ok, so I tried to make some sense of that editor. It looks great, but I am very confused as to how to use it. I tried selecting the correct "Path", for example "PathID ( Calada-LV )" and the Player Path is in Yellow, I think. Now to what I found, was that when moving the mouse to one side or the other of the track it changed color from Black to Red and back to Black, depending which side the pointer was on. I selected Stations and Platform Names, but the only two that showed up were Barstow and the UP Office in LV.
Selecting the Path ID I thought it would show me on the "Map", but way down the line was a Yellow Track with no labels. Is that the Path showing up that I requested? How does the OR program read the Paths, in what order? Do they go in the same order as they are presented in the Services File, or does it reorder them? The old MSTS AE showed where your train was, this system does not, or did I miss something? I could not find a reference as to where my train was starting and/or going to.
There are also little arrows on the Map, but they do not make sense as far as direction, at one end of a siding they are pointed one way and at the other pointed in the opposite direction.
I am going to look over the OR Manual and see if I can find out what I am missing.
Thanks Geepster775 for this information.

[crstagg]

Why not look for answers in the Trackviewer Manual. ORTS main menu > Documents button >ORTS Trackviewer Manual.pdf
Or in .....\Open Rails 1.2\Documentation\ORTS Trackviewer manual.pdf

[geepster775]

The trackviewer is just a tool to examine the trackwork, identify locations of features (sidings, speed posts, derails, stations, fueling depots, switchnodes, etc) and also a quick and dirty editor for paths. You can create new paths or edit existing ones. Trackviewer is not an activity editor, nor does it have a VCR playback function found in the MSTS AE. With Open Rails, you don't do VCR playback, you actually run the activity, place the player in autopilot, and accelerate the simulation speed [CTRL][ALT][PG UP] or [PG DN] multiple times and actually run through a 2 hour activity in 10 minutes. That is your equivalent VCR playback function.

Within trackviewer, all colors are customizable. But by default, established paths are yellow. Passing paths are orange - if they are set. If passing paths are not set, the sidings are black/green. Siding names are maroon dots which locate the extreme ends of the siding designation, switch nodes are blue dots, speed posts are purple. The start of the path is a green flag, the end point of a path is a red flag. The direction of the path is shown as a black arrow inside each and every track node the path passes over, so you cannot add/delete/alter passing paths on the downstream end of a meet point, only on the upstream end.

[F10] and [SHFT][F10] toggles highlighting, based on mouse action, on and off. There is also an equivalent menu pulldown selection to do the same. [F10] highlights track on and off. [SHFT][F10] toggles item highlighting on and off. If you don't like the colors changing as you move your mouse, turn it off.

[Show All Items] and [Show No Items] are the blanket on/off for displaying all the signals, siding names, and whatnots that overlay the track map.

[geepster775]

One other thing to pay attention to is the path at meet points. You have the opportunity here to "take other exit" when the made-for-MSTS activity routes either train intentionally in the siding.

In MSTS, one train must be deliberately pathed to take the siding. In Open Rails, it does not. Trains running in opposite directions can both be pathed to stay on the main, and open rails will automatically divert into the siding whatever train is the first arrival. Unless the train is deliberately taking a siding in order to complete an industry pickup or setout where the spur is located off the siding, there is no reason to ever deliberately path the train into the siding. You just make sure both trains keep the main, passing paths are set for both paths at that location, and Open Rails handles the rest automatically. If you are an Open Rails-only user, feel free to de-MSTS your pathing and make it deliver a better Open Rails experience.

Fellow user mg123 posted this MSTS screen this morning, which I am re-linking here.



In my view, this is the Achilles heel of MSTS activities. The player is holding the main while the AI takes the siding. Since MSTS requires one train to be deliberately pathed into the siding (in this case, it was the AI), when the player is running late (not in this screenshot example), the AI is waiting on the player and the meet looks okay. If the player runs early, he ends up waiting on the main (in this screenshot example), and the later arrival diverges and the meet looks backwards.

Under some type of valuable cargo considerations, like keeping delicate/expensive military loads on the main at all times, you can replicate a 'backwards meet' like this in Open Rails if you path both trains to hold the main, and then apply a passing path only for the oncoming AI. The AI train becomes the only train with the option to diverge regardless of which train is first to arrive.

These structural differences in path design are why so many made-for-MSTS activities require such a high level of manual control to overcome a standoff (buy hey, at least you can overcome a standoff). The need to go to manual control should be minimal (if non-existent) to simply execute a meet. So when you are editing these paths, take the opportunity to fix these other issues as well.

[Don6218]

Cima Success sort of...........

Whew! Made it all the way to Barstow! Ye - Ha!

Not without some difficulties. I have posted some screen grabs to illustrate. I discovered that in the Dispatch Window you have to change the switch positions before the red line gets there. Then things roll on by, the way they should.

The problems with the meets seems to be the ones in the middle of the run. The first three meets are proper as well as the last two, they worked without any help.

Now the problem: I was speeding all the way beyond the third meet, although in Auto Signal. The maximum on the indicator was 15mph!!
Even though the general track speed was indicated by speed posts an average of 79mph. I tried saving and coming back but to no avail. The maximum speed remained at 15 mph.

Is there a way of manually resetting this without starting the game over? Also the remaining distance disappeared in the window, the destination (Barstow 2) stayed. The mileposts were all there no problem. Now when I picked up the Pilot at the crossing in Yermo, then crossing onto the triple wide trackage everything reset (back to 75 mph) in the track monitor to work properly.
The first pic is 15 mph second is 74 mph after entering the Triple Track area.

These also make me think something is amiss in the Path area for this activity for Open Rails. The activity ended properly at the station.

Cima Sub 7a.jpgCima Sub 8b.jpg

[geepster775]

I've been informed by the dev team that the massive update to signalling and timetable operations that was added with X3863 has been not too kind to the activity side of things. They have been chasing activity-related gremlins in the code since then. If you come across something that doesn't look or act right, you could back down to X3862 and try it again.