How do REAL railroad engineers do it?

[NoClue48]

So, I'm far from being any good at driving a train in the simulator and my learning curve and struggles have led me to wonder about the real world...

1) Without the simulator's driving aids and information displays (and aside from the very easy-to-miss trackside posted speeds), how do real-world engineers know when and where speed limits are in effect and at what speed? I know that familiarization with any given route will allow them to know, but what happens if they're assigned to different routes?

2) Also without the simulator's HUD information, how do they know the current grade and how do they anticipate upcoming grade changes? Seems I'm always "chasing the grade"; and coupled with the first issue of knowing the upcoming speed limit, I'm rarely in compliance with any limits.

3) Without the aid of the Track Monitor display, how do engineers know the aspects of signals and switches at one, two or three miles distant?

You can point me to published explanations or previous posts...
Thank you!
NC

[charland]

I'm note a real engineer but I do play one on the internet...

Real engineers don't just start the job on their own, they have an experienced engineer show then the route they are assigned to, so they learn from the senior engineer and from the Employee's Timetable that tells them zone speed, any speed restrictions on tight curves, bridges, and crossings and between studying the ETT before starting a job on a new route and the senior engineers reminding the student engineer when to slow down or speed up, the can also see the speed sign approaching (not like most of us in the sim) and just the shape is enough to know there is a speed change... but the senior engineman would have let the new guy know ahead for seeing the sign.

Sometimes a foreign train will get re-routed onto a railway (do to a derailment or something). Although the train will have a crew from the railway that re-routed the train, it will also have a pilot from the railway the train is re-routed over. The pilot is a senior engineman who is familiar with the route and things just like speeds and speed restrictions.

Paul :-)

[NoClue48]

I'm note a real engineer but I do play one on the internet...

Real engineers don't just start the job on their own, they have an experienced engineer show then the route they are assigned to, so they learn from the senior engineer and from the Employee's Timetable that tells them zone speed, any speed restrictions on tight curves, bridges, and crossings and between studying the ETT before starting a job on a new route and the senior engineers reminding the student engineer when to slow down or speed up, the can also see the speed sign approaching (not like most of us in the sim) and just the shape is enough to know there is a speed change... but the senior engineman would have let the new guy know ahead for seeing the sign.

Sometimes a foreign train will get re-routed onto a railway (do to a derailment or something). Although the train will have a crew from the railway that re-routed the train, it will also have a pilot from the railway the train is re-routed over. The pilot is a senior engineman who is familiar with the route and things just like speeds and speed restrictions.

Paul :-)

Thank you, Paul. Good to know... and I knew it would take the experience of others in order to know what was needed. But, having never been in an engine cab, I am clueless--oh wait, you already knew that!

As in all simulations, one person is typically trying perform the operations four or five or more--a village, as it were...

When I was in the submarine Navy a lifetime or two ago, we had navigation (my gig) simulators; ship's conning and diving simulators; engineering simulators; weapons simulators; etc. In these they brought in whole watch sections of from 10 - 20 or more souls to experience "refresher training" and simulated emergencies and catastrophes. There were no HUDs or other aids...

But, I digress... thanks again
NoClue

[qballbandit]

Each railroad may have different Signal rules, so while the same aspect (colors) may show, the indication (the action an engineer must take) may be different.
So, each railroad has their respective guide or Signal Rules for the crews to learn and follow.

If you have an interest, look up Al Krug. Ex BN engineer with a load of info on signals. I had a link, but it seems to be dead?
Also, a decent book by Brian Solomon - "Railroad Signaling" - provides loads of information on signalling. Easy to understand, informative, educational, and an enjoyable read. There are others too, but I only own Brian's.

Remember, the signal in front of you should provide a pretty clear understanding and condition of the block/interlocking/siding it protects, and the next (or even next two signals) aspect/indication.

[charland]

Canadian National has a train simulator in Gimli Manitoba to train enginemen. Like a flight simulator someone on the outside can input different scenarios into the computer to simulate pretty much any situation a a train may encounter. Even though this training is extensive, it's can't replace operating the real thing and you still need to work under a senior engineman to learn the job.

Paul :-)

[P834C]

Adding to what has already been said:

1. Mostly by experience. When first becoming an Engineer you would be in training for 6 months to a year learning how to run a train and learning the route(s). By the time you are qualified on a particular route you will know everything about it (grades, speeds, curves, signal locations, etc.) like the back of your hand. Regarding the second part of your question, Engineers are not assigned to routes by the company, they choose the routes available at their home terminal that they want to work. And to work a particular route you must be qualified on it. Crew management in most situations wouldn't call an Engineer for a route that they aren't qualified on. If they did a pilot Engineer qualified on that route would be provided.

2. Again experience. You need to anticipate what needs to be done long before that action is required. An Engineer needs to be pro-active and not re-active.

3. When they come into view you see them with your eyes! Some railroads and only on some routes there may be cab signals (or similar systems) in place where the signal aspects are displayed inside of the locomotive on a cab signal display. You can see a Union Pacific cab signal display (above the UP 1995 sticker) here:

http://s56.photobucket.com/user/4544x4/media/00000.jpg.html

The indicators on the left are for the ATC (Automatic Train Control) system which is in place on ex CNW territories and the right indicators are for the CCS/ACS (Coded Cab Signal/Automated Cab Signal) system on the original pre-merger(s) UP territories.

I work for UP and all locomotives in road service have cab signal displays but on territories without CCS or ATC the system has to be cutout. Also as additional info, PTC does show signal locations on the display screen/map but not signal aspects.

[conductorchris]

"qualified" means actually passing tests on the routes involved and having been on them at least once before actually being a crew member (same is true for conductors). In my experience, we've had to draw a map, from memory with all the tracks and sidings, track names, every road crossing and the name of the road, (and the roads that crossed on a bridge too), every signal.

It doesn't take long until you can look up, out the window for 20 seconds, and know exactly where you are.

I once rode with an engineer on a particularly busy mainline where there is a lot to do and keep track of Or so I thought. (all the rest of operating and cab ride experience is on shortlines without signals). We had a very involved conversation and he seemed to be operating the train without any evidence of actually paying attention to the tracks, moving his hands on the controls like a touch-typest. Quite alarming! He was quite aware, of course, but he didn't need to think about it. He did it every day. (Happened long enough ago that I think the statute of limitations has run out).

Christopher

[EricF]

Familiarity with the route is by and large a requirement on any railroad. As already mentioned, crew members may be tested on knowledge of the route and the relevant employee timetable; they have to be "checked out" on the route and be passed by senior employees before they're permitted to run the route on their own. It's nothing like the way we can "jump in the cab and run" on any route in a simulator.

Personally, if maps and references exist for a route I'm running, I like to have them handy in a binder, ready to refer to. They're the only way to substitute for real-world knowledge of a route.

It's not just the railroads where day-in, day-out familiarity can allow you to seem as if you're barely paying attention while a part of your mind is silently keeping track of everything. Years and years ago I worked for an armored car service. I knew every turn and bump in the road on regular runs; I could lift my pen while doing paperwork or steady my cup of coffee automatically without even having to look out the window. With new drivers, the conversation would go something like, "Watch that bump up ahead, you won't see it coming." "What bump??" *WHACK* "How do you DO that??" Do the same thing at the same place every day, and it's amazing how your brain can reliably anticipate and perform the same actions without having to give it conscious thought.

On the other hand, habituation is also deadly on the railroad when crossings are changed, siding lengths are altered, or curve speeds are changed. So there may be routine re-evaluations not only to make sure crews are on the ball in familiar territory, but also keeping on top of any changes on the line.

[Keystoneaholic]

I suspect that the situation would be similar in the US, but in the UK if you haven't driven a route for 6 months you have to re-qualify for that route.

It's not just train crew who learn where they are, regular passengers do too. I used to travel very regularly on the route between Plymouth and London and, if I was travelling on the overnight service in a sleeper, I could wake up and know within a couple of minutes exactly where we were.

[NoClue48]

Cool! Thank you for the information. I'm not surprised that repetition, practice and experience are the major factors...