The truth behind MSTS vs ORTS

[solentary]

Dear Sir,

As you seem to know what you are doing much more than do I, I wonder if you could help me with the following, please? Sorry to bother you.

David

I am running the High Speed Kassel-Fulda on MSTS/Open Rails, using the Raildriver. I have run all that I can think of but have the following problem: The Kassel-Fulde activity and its reverse journey, responds to all of the Raildriver commands - but it will not move from the station start. There, I am stuck. Can you assist me please? 81 years old!
dcjones2@cox.net

[slipperman]

Hi David,
As you've posted in an Open Rails Forum, I assume you're referring to running this activity with OR and not MSTS.
Does the loco have a pantograph? If so, have you raised it?

Just a friendly note - it's not a good idea to publish your email address on any Forum (unless you're a business!).

Cheers,
Ged

[geepster775]

I think some here are drama queens who are over-blowing the 'lots'. I have no problem with a program that makes you 'come to it' in small ways, rather than wasting development time accommodating all the faults and failures of its predecessor just so *some* people can have the luxury of sitting there and not even budging an inch.

I'm pretty sure a 2017 auto with the backup camera is a far cry from a 1977 auto, but I don't blame the automaker for not making the 2017 ownership experience as 'simple' and as 'elementary' and 'without the need to learn something' as the 1977 car experience was. But hell, some of you guys probably do return your newer cars to the dealer on the premise that 'you' shouldn't have to 'come to it'.

[bwbrgb]

I've been around MSTS for most of it's 15 or so years and at the beginning we all struggled to some degree . We started out , almost instantly , trying to improve , adjust , change , or embellish this and that . We all had some success and some failures but we persevered and continued on . A small success in those days was an event and we appreciated it . Along came " Bin " . A true revelation for all . Made things much simpler and refined a lot of our somewhat crude " fixes " . For many years we fixed , adjusted , bent and mutilated to our hearts content and enjoyed the experience from our own and many other Simmers contributions .
That is not gone or corrupted in any way by " Open Rails " . With OR you can " Run what you brung " if you wish or you can adjust as many or as few things as OR will let you to enjoy their new system and it's new additives all the more . It's up to you ! I'm sorry but I don't see the so called conflict .
In reality we are very fortunate that we can still use all our " OLD " locomotives , rolling stock , sounds and routes etc . as is or we can play again and tweak away as much as you wish . I think we are pretty fortunate to have both at once and not have lost anything but gained a lot .
Where's the hassle ? I don't see any .

[CSRX]

I think some here are drama queens who are over-blowing the 'lots'. I have no problem with a program that makes you 'come to it' in small ways, rather than wasting development time accommodating all the faults and failures of its predecessor just so *some* people can have the luxury of sitting there and not even budging an inch.

I'm pretty sure a 2017 auto with the backup camera is a far cry from a 1977 auto, but I don't blame the automaker for not making the 2017 ownership experience as 'simple' and as 'elementary' and 'without the need to learn something' as the 1977 car experience was. But hell, some of you guys probably do return your newer cars to the dealer on the premise that 'you' shouldn't have to 'come to it'.

It seems as if in this day in age, no one, in any generation, wants to try and learn new things. Just stay happy with the old.

[geepster775]

I don't think the so-called new sheriff is going to win any elections, sorry to say.

You must have missed the news story that the new sheriff has already captured the majority.

Have fun turning the lights out.

[INRDfan]

Personally, I never use MSTS anymore, except for the route and activity editors. Part of the reasoning behind that is that it was SO unstable. I could be an hour into an activity and get a random crash to desktop. Once I downloaded OR, the crashes stopped. I loved the added realism of being able to connect air hoses, open/close angle cocks, etc. I just don't even look back at MSTS.

As far as the customization is concerned, I enjoy tweaking things to my liking. It lets me customize things in my V-scale world exactly the way I want them to be... just like my model railroad. In fact, I rarely keep a route "vanilla." I get busy tinkering with scenery in the RE. I also enjoy being able to modify the size of digital readouts on cab monitors... That was one thing that always bugged me... Having huge text on the screens in the cab.

So I enjoy tweaking and modifying things... I will even say it makes it more fun, and makes running a train all the more enjoyable when you put your creativity to work.

[tie]

IMO it's a tossup really. There are areas of my latest route that are buggy in OR with corrupt terrain tiles where as MSTS does not have that problem. Certain trackside vegetation looks awful in OR where as MSTS it looks fine, a similar problem Neil had. But OR there is so much more detail you can throw in without the choppy frame rates kicking in.

[muskokaandtahoe]

So I enjoy tweaking and modifying things... I will even say it makes it more fun, and makes running a train all the more enjoyable when you put your creativity to work.

I agree.

When were we not tweeking and modifying things in the MSTS years to get things to run better? Crabbing about that WRT Open Rails is a valid opinion but it's about as significant as saying it's a bit too cool today for just a tee shirt.

IOW, tweeking MSTS content -- for MSTS or for Open Rails -- is just life as it is; You can say you want it to be different but saying so won't make it so.

[scottb613]

Hi Folks,

I'm in my drift in and drift out mode with train sim at the moment but I'm an avid supporter of ORTS...

From the get go - ORTS has been an opportunity for the community that doesn't come along very often... An open source simulator built by and for the community - as a labor of love... No profit margins or schedules to consider - just a bunch of highly motivated, dedicated, and skilled individuals going above and beyond for the community day after day, month after month, year after year... If you have a better idea - it's wide open for you to roll up your sleeves and dive right in to make it better... Man - I salute you guys !!!

One of my favorite features - which I have played with pretty extensively - is the "advanced shunting"... You can have AI trains doing real work - making up and breaking down trains through complex switching maneuvers in the yards - have power change outs - have an AI helper automatically couple to the back of your train to push you up the hill - then decouple and drift down the grade to await the next train - all without player intervention... It's truly amazing and try that with your dad's MSTS and this is only one new feature that ORTS brings to the table...


Go ORTS !

Regards,
Scott




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[R. Steele]

Hi Folks,

I'm in my drift in and drift out mode with train sim at the moment but I'm an avid supporter of ORTS...

From the get go - ORTS has been an opportunity for the community that doesn't come along very often... An open source simulator built by and for the community - as a labor of love... No profit margins or schedules to consider - just a bunch of highly motivated, dedicated, and skilled individuals going above and beyond for the community day after day, month after month, year after year... If you have a better idea - it's wide open for you to roll up your sleeves and dive right in to make it better... Man - I salute you guys !!!

One of my favorite features - which I have played with pretty extensively - is the "advanced shunting"... You can have AI trains doing real work - making up and breaking down trains through complex switching maneuvers in the yards - have power change outs - have an AI helper automatically couple to the back of your train to push you up the hill - then decouple and drift down the grade to await the next train - all without player intervention... It's truly amazing and try that with your dad's MSTS and this is only one new feature that ORTS brings to the table...


Go ORTS !

Regards,
Scott
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Scott, I wholeheartedly agree with both of these statements. I have had more fun with AI trains in ORTS that you can imagine, doing everything you describe...except ... your mention of AI helpers... had not thought of that one yet. Great idea, thanks.

[geepster775]

Let's remember that some of the critics on this thread are already on the record with previous comments knocking open source projects in general because they don't create as many jobs among the IT 'brotherhood' as legitimate for-profit software ventures do. Their agendas are bigger than simple enjoyment of a simulator.

[R. Steele]

Let's remember that some of the critics on this thread are already on the record with previous comments knocking open source projects in general because they don't create as many jobs among the IT 'brotherhood' as legitimate for-profit software ventures do. Their agendas are bigger than simple enjoyment of a simulator.

Are those bigger agenda's the ones they sit on or the ones between their ears?

[OTTODAD]

Are those bigger agenda's the ones they sit on or the ones between their ears?

I usually do not comment on posts like this one, but what in darnation has it got to do with TRAIN SIMULATION ?

The moderation in these forums is pathetic !

[rufuskins]

To each their own is what I say. If you like MSTS then surely that's fine, and if you love OR then that is equally fine. It seems to me that whatever is done to promote train simulation must be a plus.
It would be a poor world if we all did the same - variety is definitely the spice of life. This hobby gives pleasure and a sense of achievement in so many ways such as creating routes, building railway stock, etc. In addition it allows us to develop many virtual friendships, which in some cases turns into face-to-face friendships.
We should celebrate this hobby of ours, as well as recognising and acknowledging all of the excellent work on offer.