UK Train Horns

[NorthernWarrior]

Not sure if this has been noted before, was present in the beta versions but still exists in the latest complete release. That is, UK train horns sound several octaves lower than they should be, more like a marine or fog horn. This seems to affect just about every UK diesel loco I try - the Class 25, 37 or 40 from the ELR pack or the many and varied diesel locos with Mid East UK.

Is this a known or advised issue and if so could it be looked at for a future update.

Many thanks.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Vern !

Are there any new locos in MSTS which have been specifically created for use in ORTS, you could check what their horns sound like ?

[NorthernWarrior]

Not aware of any, but then I'm only just getting up to speed with OR. Most of the stuff dates from years ago, the majority of developers having either retired or moved over to the RW-TS side of things.

[OTTODAD]

There are these:

http://www.dekosoft.com/trains/category/open-rails/

http://openrails.org/download/content/

http://openrails.org/

[OTTODAD]

Here are the horn sounds from this Dekosoft loco in ORTS.

https://youtu.be/DCYYs2YkDE8

Sounds O.K. to me, but am no expert of what real ones sound like, there being so many of them, owned by different railroads ?

[crstagg]

Otto,

Did you happen to notice the title of this Thread? Dekosoft locos for ORTS are US not UK locos!

[NorthernWarrior]

Thanks Charles - yes, Otto please direct your research to specific items such as the diesels in the ELR pack, or those supplied with Thames Mersey and the last Mid-East CD release from UKTS.

Off the top of my head, the only thing I could think of as being a factor is UK horns are two tone (high note and low note) but only the devs could say whether that has any bearing.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Vern !

Here I am comparing the horn sounds of a Mid-East-Plus BR-Class-40 in MSTSBin and ORTS.

https://youtu.be/XPmDW-J2ze8

Can you please give me the precise Trainset BR loco number file name of one used in the Mid-East-Plus which sounds different !

P.S.: There not being any new UK diesels for ORTS I used the Dekosoft one to perhaps spot in its *.ENG, *.SMS and *.WAV files, comparing them with those of some UK BR diesels what the difference in them is which could explain these unequal sounds you have mentioned and hoped that you could to the same !

[NorthernWarrior]

On that second part of the clip there was a definite booming sound. I'll give the Mid East Class 40 a trial but the specific locos I was using yesterday were from the East Lancashire charity pack, if you have access to those.

[OTTODAD]

Hi Vern !

You mentioning 2-tone horn sounds made me check the 43-HST-Swallow horn in ORTS and MSTSBin and they sound the same, using different internal and external horn sounds:

https://youtu.be/H7ob9a99HV8

They can be edited but unless ORTS can modify how it reads these *.WAV files they would sound the same as in MSTSBin !

To create realistic sounds they have to be recorded again in the cab and outside, the outside ones played back according to the distance the diesel is away from the recorder.

All that does not bother me as I do not use locos horns often and if their sounds bother me then change them to ones I like. I do not mind whether they are prototypical for a loco, never having heard it in the real world !


.

[Armchair_Engo]

Not sure if this has been noted before, was present in the beta versions but still exists in the latest complete release. That is, UK train horns sound several octaves lower than they should be, more like a marine or fog horn.
Is this a known or advised issue and if so could it be looked at for a future update.

May or may not be an OR issue depending on how you look at it.

I'll deal here with the Class 25 from MEP (and specifically loco MEP-25054.ENG). These use sounds from the TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common.MEP\MEP-RatSound\ folder.
The README.1ST in this folder dates back to 2003, as do the horn .wavs . The 24cab.sms and 25cab.sms files date back to 2009.

The .sms files look fairly normal until I get to the horn streams.
Excerpt from cab25.sms:

			Stream (
				Priority ( 6 )
				Triggers ( 1
			      	Discrete_Trigger ( 8 PlayOneShot ( 1 File ( "x_25_horn1.wav" -1 ) SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) ) )
				)
				FrequencyCurve(
					Variable2Controlled
					CurvePoints ( 2
						0.000		5512
						1.000		5512
					)
					Granularity ( 1000 )
				)
			)
			Stream (
				Priority ( 6 )
				Triggers ( 1
					Discrete_Trigger ( 10 PlayOneShot ( 1 File ( "x_25_horn2.wav" -1 ) SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) ) )
				)
				FrequencyCurve(
					Variable2Controlled
					CurvePoints ( 2
						0.000		5512
						1.000		5512
					)
					Granularity ( 1000 )
				)
			)

I can't think of a good reason for a horn to have a FrequencyCurve(), or for it to be Variable2Controlled, or for the CurvePoints to be between 0 and 1, or even to have a frequency of 5512 with a Granularity of 1000(!?).

It seems that ORTS does honor those FrequncyCurves.
When the offending FrequncyCurves are deleted, the horns work normally in ORTS. However, in MSTS the horns run too fast... which implies the cab horn .wavs are not to MSTS spec.

Is it a legacy add-on software issue? (To be fair, I've found a number of legacy issues in MEP)
Or is it another minor incompatibility between MSTS and ORTS?

[Armchair_Engo]

In my previous post I wrote:

When the offending FrequncyCurves are deleted, the horns work normally in ORTS. However, in MSTS the horns run too fast... which implies the cab horn .wavs are not to MSTS spec.

I'll clarify this, thus:
"However, in MSTS the horns run too fast... which implies the cab horn .wavs as used in the cab sms are not to MSTS spec."

Eagle-eyed MSTS sound enthusiasts will have spotted that the cab .sms code snippet is using external horn sound files for some reason, hence the FrequencyCurve() kluge.

The TRAINS\TRAINSET\Common.MEP\MEP-RatSound\ folder does contain correctly named and to-spec internal horn .wavs.
When the two horn streams in 25cab.sms are edited as per the example below, the in-cab horn sounds match the external horn sounds in both MSTS and ORTS and sound correct.

			Stream (
				Priority ( 6 )
				Triggers ( 1
			      	Discrete_Trigger ( 8 PlayOneShot ( 1 File ( "25_horn1.wav" -1 ) SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) ) )
				)
			)
			Stream (
				Priority ( 6 )
				Triggers ( 1
					Discrete_Trigger ( 10 PlayOneShot ( 1 File ( "25_horn2.wav" -1 ) SelectionMethod ( SequentialSelection ) ) )
				)
			)

So why the kluge? I don't know. I can guess at a few scenarios.

Sound sets for other UK locos may have similar or quite different issues.

I recall that in the Thames-Trent route, a sound region station announcement worked ok for me in MSTS, but ran comically fast in ORTS. Looking in the wav file properties in XP, the bitrate was crazy high, like 1472kbps or somesuch, yet it played ok in MSTS. I opened and resaved that particular .wav in GoldWave (maybe I resampled it, hmm, it was months ago). Then it worked fine in both MSTS and ORTS.
My memory can get hazy on stuff like this as I generally won't log faults and fixes unless I am doing User Acceptance Testing for content creators aka "beta testing". For my own use I'll just fix things and move on.

[baldwin]

I have tried that edit for the MEP Rat, and can say that it does not make any difference. In cab = foghorn, external view sounds too fast and too high pitched. I am definitely beginning to suspect the sound handling as I experimented with the MEPUltWhistlersnd using three tests with different frequencies, 11025, 22050 and 44100. The horn sounded exactly the same in all three, one high and one foghorn tone. External again was high pitched and fast. I get the feeling that OR is playing the internal sounds at half speed and the externals at double speed.

[Armchair_Engo]

I have tried that edit for the MEP Rat, and can say that it does not make any difference. In cab = foghorn, external view sounds too fast and too high pitched.

Did you edit the horn filenames as well?

[Armchair_Engo]

I am definitely beginning to suspect the sound handling as I experimented with the MEPUltWhistlersnd using three tests with different frequencies, 11025, 22050 and 44100. The horn sounded exactly the same in all three, one high and one foghorn tone. External again was high pitched and fast.

Which locos alias back to the MEPUltWhistlersnd folder?
Edit: Never mind, I figured out it is the Class 40.

From the date modified on the .sms files contained in my folders, I can see that I have fiddled with them in the past, although that may have been to resolve missing file issues.