Question about running MSTS activities in OR

[plethaus21]

Hey everyone,

I'm digging into OR a bit more and getting some old payware stuff installed. On testing most of it seems to run well, but I did come across one weird one - the UP Kaiser coal train activity that comes with the Streamlines Green River route shows a red line on the track monitor, which is at the first switch the player train comes across. The monitor says "Node: End Auth." As soon as I cross it the monitor changes to "OutOfControl: Off Path."



Is this likely an activity compatibility issue or maybe something with the activity itself?

On a related note, are there any current "known issues" as far as running MSTS-designed activities with OR (such as the ones that come with certain payware routes)?

Thanks in advance for dealing with my ignorance while I learn OR...

[R. Steele]

I know this one, the activity starts off with the player running at about 30mph (in Auto mode)
The red bar indicates a thrown switch..not in your favor.

If you can make enough brake application (dynamics first, then train) to stop the train before jumping the switch and causing the SPAD ("out of control") condition, the switch will clear when the train speed is zero.

Then you'll see a red signal light, and can proceed to it and wait your turn in traffic.

If you cannot stop the train and you pass through the switch, use Ctrl+M to go to manual mode to clear the switch and reset the brakes. Then you should be able to switch back to auto mode (Ctrl+M) and watch the switches, signals, and traffic.


As you'll find AI traffic handling is very sophisticated in OR, train braking also.
MSTS activities sometimes need to be rewritten and adjusted to work as intended in OR, especially the timing (start, etc) of AI trains because of ORs advanced traffic handling. Since OR does not have a full fledged AE, you have to use the MSTS AE to make changes, or be familiar with a couple of newer/unfinished OR tools - you got enough on your hands just with OR presently.

Reading the manual would help answer a lot of your questions, but absent that, switching to manual mode Ctrl+M whenever you get into trouble will help reset the situation. Keep running the same activity, making mistakes, and the learning curve will flatten.


EDIT NOTE: First practical thing would be adjust the players starting speed to something slower to give yourself time to grasp the situation and bring the train to a complete stop before "running the switch". (I am not sure that's the correct phrase for it...someone help me here).

I looked at the players srv file and I have changed the default starting speed from 13.4112 to what you see below:
(as I remember, once stopped, that heavy coal load will be fun to get moving again, especially in OR...have a good time)
(the efficiency can be changed to 100 - but that's a whole 'nother story)
SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0v0t______

Service_Definition (
Serial ( 4 )
Name ( "UP Kaiser LD" )
Train_Config ( "SLI Kaiser Coalliner LD" )
PathID ( KaiserLD )
MaxWheelAcceleration ( 0 )
Efficiency ( 0.75 )
TimeTable (
StartingSpeed ( 7.4112 )
EndingSpeed ( 0 )
StartInWorld ( 0 )
EndInWorld ( 0 )
)
)

One last edit: to refresh my memory I just did a quick start up using X3217 - here's the screenshot approaching the red, after starting about 15mph, stopping, switch clears, getting moving again....all in auto mode.

bandicam 2015-08-19 00-41-28-827.jpg

[plethaus21]

Thanks so much for your help and input, Gerry!

I was thinking to myself (based on my limited knowledge of how MSTS activities function) that it had to be something related to the intended "path" of the player train being thrown off because a switch not being set "correctly" to follow that path. I did try stopping before the switch to change to Manual mode to throw the switch and see what happened, but thanks to OR's great physics there was no way in heck that train was stopping before it.

I'll take a look at doing a quick modification of the activity file to change the speed to something more manageable; we'll see if I can get it moving again.

I know one of the other SLI activities had this same behavior (but I forgot which one it was) so I'll have to give this a try whenever I see this OutOfControl: Off Path message.

EDIT: I haven't read the entire manual but I did read the first chunk up to the section about physics (and I did skip ahead to read the full section about the signalling and switch control modes) so I think I'm getting the groundwork laid here.

On a related note, kudos to the person who wrote the manual... I am extremely picky when it comes to grammar and punctuation in documentations and darned if I couldn't find a single error. Someone's a stickler just like me

[rfranzosa]

While we are on the subject of activities, there are some switching activities that I have written in the past where I just create a short path, and let the user switch a yard as they see fit.

In OR, you get the 'off path' message and the emergency brake. Is the best way to handle this switching to manual mode?

[R. Steele]

You'll find in OR the AI traffic moves at a more realistic speed.
Also MSTS traffic used a lot of short paths, whereas OR can tolerate more AI's running and consequently you can use longer paths for traffic - have them run the entire route, interacting with each other.

And....in OR you'll want all your AI traffic locos to have cabviews, because you can jump to them and run them instead of the player.

Concerning the manual: you are right, it is good, minor typos, but well written. There is a new release of the manual included in the Documentation folder in X3217...make sure you have that. On the cover it will read "Reference Manual Version 1.0.3215 and lower left is "Revised August 11, 2015"

[R. Steele]

While we are on the subject of activities, there are some switching activities that I have written in the past where I just create a short path, and let the user switch a yard as they see fit.

In OR, you get the 'off path' message and the emergency brake. Is the best way to handle this switching to manual mode?

Hi Rick, AFAIK, yes it is. I would just include in the ReadMe (and hope it is read) to begin the activity by switching to manual mode, Ctrl+M, before moving the train. Also that all switching and signal permission must be done by player.

After that, the player can go anywhere in the route and do what they want. There can even be AI traffic, but, then the player has to pay close attention to the Traffic flow, obey closed switches if they are reserved for traffic (until traffic clears) and follow normal operating procedures.

[plethaus21]

Well here's a new one on me (and nothing in the manual mentions this): Trying out "Time for a Wash (part 2)," the first thing you have to do is back into a string of coal hoppers. The switch to get you there isn't set right, so whether I stop and use manual mode to set it, or the Dispatcher window, I get this error when I cross over the switch to pick up the cars: "OutOfControl: Splipped." Yes, that's "splipped", not "slipped." No idea what that means!

[grncherry1]

There is another Streamlines ATSF Sel2. The Eastbound SWChief has no AI traffic at all. There should be a freight entering the yard throat just after departing Needles and another freight in the siding just after crossing the river at Topac. Then there is occasional traffic all the way across to Winslow but in OR there is none, it is like running for 5 hours in explore mode. Very lonely run and not fun.

[roeter]

Yes, that's "splipped", not "slipped." No idea what that means!

It means that somebody's finger must have splipped on the keyboard.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

[R. Steele]

There is another Streamlines ATSF Sel2. The Eastbound SWChief has no AI traffic at all. There should be a freight entering the yard throat just after departing Needles and another freight in the siding just after crossing the river at Topac. Then there is occasional traffic all the way across to Winslow but in OR there is none, it is like running for 5 hours in explore mode. Very lonely run and not fun.

You should really start your own thread, attach your OR log of the session, whole name of activity AND name of zip file if downloaded - route name (which you have supplied) and see if someone can find an answer.

Usually it is not that difficult with AI trains, start times, sometimes minor path changes...but before anyone can begin to help more information is needed.

[plethaus21]

It means that somebody's finger must have splipped on the keyboard.

Regards,
Rob Roeterdink

That's kind of what I figured, but you never know with all those rail-roading terms out there.

So in this case, the OOC "slipped" error refers to going off the scripted player path I'm guessing? What would one do in that scenario if that happens? I tried continuing on in auto mode but it "broke" the activity as all signals were red at that point.

[plethaus21]

OK, here's another activity that appears to be broken with OR. This is "Fruita Turn," the first activity that comes with Streamlines' Green River route. An AI train takes the mainline and stops at the red, while the player train gets a red because the switch isn't thrown. If I throw the switch with dispatcher I still get a SPAD OutOfControl error.



EDIT: Found a bug in Launchpad about this, although I don't see a resolution:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1458701

[R. Steele]

That's kind of what I figured, but you never know with all those rail-roading terms out there.

So in this case, the OOC "slipped" error refers to going off the scripted player path I'm guessing? What would one do in that scenario if that happens? I tried continuing on in auto mode but it "broke" the activity as all signals were red at that point.

Concerning activity: Trying out "Time for a Wash (part 2), I ran that last night after reading your post, and no problems at all. Staying in auto will cause a problem when the path ends.... it does not have a reverse point to pick up the empties and the caboose. But again, Ctrl+M resets all.

I usually use the AE to check the players path to see how it is constructed. So in this case I knew to start in manual mode Ctrl+M, used the dispatch window to throw all the switches clear to the caboose, picked everything up and when the train symbol turned white switched back to Auto (CtrL+M - no need to stop when going from manual to auto in this case).

RE: Fruita Turn: again no problems, AI traffic an player pass without a hitch, signals correct. I don't remember modifying this activity at all...I will check to make sure.

***You have never included a copy of your OR log... do you have the following options checked?
Experimental Tab > Extended AI Train Shunting and Location-Linked Passing Path Processing

OR is very flexible, using the control options, you can usually make it through most situation. Of course, mods using the AE are sometimes required. These activities are not broke in OR .... rather it is a newer more sophisticated program trying to be backward compatible to literally thousands of activities written by many people with different skill levels and using ingenious hacks to trick MSTS. Nothing wrong with all that (quite wonderful actually) but mostly not needed for OR.<<(This statement is solely my own opinion.)

bandicam 2015-08-20 17-21-10-321.jpgbandicam 2015-08-20 17-22-17-937.jpg

[R. Steele]

EDIT: Found a bug in Launchpad about this, although I don't see a resolution:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/or/+bug/1458701

Checked the reporters log and the two options, I referenced in my post #13 were not checked.

[plethaus21]

I tried the activity again with those options checked but the behavior was exactly the same.

When you try it, does the AI train go into the siding or stay on the main? edit: Nevermind, I didn't look at the screenshot. You must have edited the activity to make that AI service path go into the siding or something... every time I try it the AI takes the main.

edit: Whoops, not thinking straight tonight apparently.. obviously in your pic you were able to pass in the siding. I'm not sure why the signal doesn't change for me then.

I also tried turning on the "autopilot" feature, all that did was bring my train to a stop at the signal facing the oncoming AI train and we both sat there not moving.

final edit: I would be interested in a posting a log if there is something relevant to be found there, but I'm not sure what options to enable to log properly and where the log file would be stored