How Braking Works?

**baldwin** · 07-06-2015, 10:45

http://www.railway-technical.com/brake2.shtml is a real world description of how air brakes should work. To do the same in a train simulator takes lots of practice, just like the real world as well.

**R. Steele** · 07-06-2015, 12:18

I understand completely. Relatively new to this myself...compared to the "eons" of experience you'll find at TS ...took a while to learn, lots of fun though. Stay with OR...a truer experience with brakes and most certainly, visually.

Use the F5 Brake HUD (Shift key will cycle you through the F5 HUDs)...learn about lapping the brakes, bail off....OR is set up to simulate these quite effectively.

**Claude350** · 07-06-2015, 13:46

Are you applying the brakes fully? If so that is where the problem is. The train brakes are applied in increments. If you are using the keyboard press the appropriate key with a tap. You should see a 2 to 4 percent reduction which will equal a 6 lb reduction in air. Give it time as the brakes apply from front to back. You see your speed starting to decrease. Tap the key again for more braking. You can also use your dynamic brakes to aid in braking. Dynamics should be first then air if dynamics won't hold the train in check. On level terrain I have dynamic brakes to bring train down to a crawl and use engine brakes to bring it to a complete stop. On level terrain I have used dynamic brakes to bring the train to a crawl, then used engine brakes to bring the train to a complete stop.

**muskokaandtahoe** · 07-07-2015, 00:01

I'm a bit suspicious that braking in OR is too powerful.

That said, don't overlook the fact that much of what happens is based on the data in the .wag files... in this specific case it is MaxBrakeForce() for each car that will have a great effect upon train braking.

AFAIK there isn't one right answer for the correct value... it varies by total car weight and, to some degree, by era and maybe even type of car. I usually run trains in the steam and early diesel era and what's been recommended to me was to use a value that's about 30-33% of whatever is in Mass(). I sometimes go a bit higher for an empty car and a bit less for a really heavy one.

Hope this helps.

**analea** · 07-07-2015, 09:03

Originally posted by bdliddicoa

I'm new to Open Rails and running long trains in OR/MSTS. Now that I'm trying to run long trains on mountain routes, I'm realizing that I don't really understand how train brake systems work. I end up constantly "chasing the needle". I'll initialize brakes, add train brake, expected speed grinds down to zero. I take the brakes off and re-initialize and expected speed shoots back up, far above the limit. So, I add brake and we start the cycle again.

There must be a useful guide to braking in OR/MSTS, but I can't find it. I read the OR manual and it explains the buttons to press for the various brakes but it doesn't really help me learn how to use train brakes in the real world.

Any ideas where to start?

Thanks,

Brian L.

Brian: I believe that you´re creating a "potential" disaster situation handling the brakes by this way you´re doing.
As Claude said, you must use the dynamics brakes and gradually applying the train brakes. To maintain the speed make adjustments - firstly - with the dynamic braking.
To bring a train downgrade it will requires you a lot of practice/training, especially in mountain grades. Doing it safely is "state of the art" of conducting... and I love it!
Cheers from Brazil.
Roesler

**R. Steele** · 07-07-2015, 13:54

Originally posted by analea

...use the dynamics brakes and gradually applying the train brakes...Roesler

light touch on the train brakes, and gradual, 1 or 2 % at a time, no full application, ....keep working the dynamics to keep speed within the desired range. (my emphasis on gradual application)

**lindsayts** · 07-07-2015, 15:49

First a comment, when dealing with any transport system where the particular item (train, aircraft water born ship) is heavy is always a serious challenge, as has already been stated the way forward is small control movements slowly. Large control movements will kill you.

You may though be running into a weakness of single pipe brake systems, in these you HAVE to keep the brakes released for a good percentage of time to allow the Auxillary reserviours along the train to recharge. On long grades such large trains always did a brake test. To allow this before the top of the grade were two sets of markers, at the first one the driver applied the brakes with a particular pressure drop. If the train did not slow down the specifed amount depending, on the era, line and rollling stock the driver had to go down the train and partly apply a certain number of handbrakes or brake retaining valves. On reaching the bottom of the grade these would all have to be released.
This procedure was not really loved particularly on an early morning freight in winter.

There were many runaways in freights and even some pass's from drivers not 100 percent familiar with a line.

Lindsay

**bdliddicoa** · 07-07-2015, 22:34

Thanks to all: most of what I'm doing is steam trains over 3DTS's Donner and Tehachapi routes (in Open Rails). So, no dynamic brakes.
Let's say I'm going downhill in a Cab Forward with 50 cars. I gather that I start off by engaging handbrakes? Then start moving and initialize brakes (with no brakes) and add just a bit of train brakes (3-4%). Do I then lap the system? I know this is more than you can explain in a small text, but a few tips would be great if you can spare any...

Brian L.

**OTTODAD** · 07-08-2015, 05:40

Originally posted by bdliddicoa

Most of what I'm doing is steam trains over 3DTS's Donner and Tehachapi routes (in Open Rails). So, no dynamic brakes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countersteam_brake

**analea** · 07-08-2015, 06:27

Originally posted by bdliddicoa

Thanks to all: most of what I'm doing is steam trains over 3DTS's Donner and Tehachapi routes (in Open Rails). So, no dynamic brakes.
Let's say I'm going downhill in a Cab Forward with 50 cars. I gather that I start off by engaging handbrakes? Then start moving and initialize brakes (with no brakes) and add just a bit of train brakes (3-4%). Do I then lap the system? I know this is more than you can explain in a small text, but a few tips would be great if you can spare any...

Brian L.

Steam? Sorry man: I can´t help you with this... The only steam thing that I can handle is my kettle/pan to make my coffee!
I have the MSTS since it was released (when?) and I never completed a steam activity. No way!
Take care with those grades! I "loose" my brakes a couple times over there!

**baldwin** · 07-08-2015, 10:15

The only real difference between a steam and a diesel braking is the diesel has dynamic brakes to augment the braking. There is only one hard and fast rule, do not run out of air. Have you read that article I linked to in post #2. it was originally written by a real world rail engineer called Al Krug, used to work for BNSF, might still do.

**muskokaandtahoe** · 07-08-2015, 14:11

Originally posted by bdliddicoa

Thanks to all: most of what I'm doing is steam trains over 3DTS's Donner and Tehachapi routes (in Open Rails). So, no dynamic brakes.
Brian L.

Back in the steam era when you had heavy trains going down steep grades the use of retainers was almost always necessary.

Real retainers work by keeping a certain amount of air in the brake cylinder after the brakes were released. This allowed the brakes to continue to do their thing while at the same time allowing the train line to recharge the air reservoirs. Normally releasing the brakes would allow the brake cylinder to vent completely in a couple of seconds.

Offhand I don't know how OR doers retainers... but they are there to use. You'll probably have to experiment some to find the right number of cars to set to get the results you want.

How Braking Works?

How Braking Works?

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