No brakes

**R. Steele** · 06-09-2015, 15:30

Dave did you take a look at the F5 brake HUD and see if any of the wagons were missing brake values...just blanks showing...
If so that means those specific files need to be corrected to run properly in OR. Could be any number of things, poorly formated comment line, extra or missing brackets...
I have found any number of things that can cause this.
Of course, with my limited train simming experience...could be something else entirely.

**prr4ever** · 06-09-2015, 18:14

Brakes

Yes I did Gerry. The F5 shows all the cars with brake values. The first one or two show a small amount of BC pressure. All the rest show about 1 or 2 PSI in the BC's. This is a 75 car consist but made up of only three different cars. They all look OK in their wag files. They do function in MSTS. I will spend some time tomorrow and replace the brake values in the wags since it is only three different cars. I have some good standard brake settings I use. Quite a feat to stop a 75 car consist with 2 psi in the brake cylanders!!

**prr4ever** · 06-09-2015, 19:27

I have tried different rolling stock in place of the ones with non functioning brakes. These exibit the same problem. The 4 lead locomotives the brakes set ok. The next 36 wagons the brakes do not set. All wagons after those 36 the brakes set ok. Does not matter which wagons I put behind the engines, The first 36 the brakes do not function. Any ideas ????

**R. Steele** · 06-09-2015, 19:56

No ideas here, can you post what cars they are, or at least an example of the brake section in the wag file.
Are they available in the TS library?

**prr4ever** · 06-09-2015, 21:53

brakes

US_100T_NS_Coal Car (MT) Probably from library, don't really remember where I got them.

I am not having any luck uploading the wag files, not in correct format. Uploaded the brake settings I use but in text format, as required, so formatting is not correct.

Attached Files

brake settings for wag files.txt (539 Bytes, 10 views)

**R. Steele** · 06-09-2015, 22:08

Here's the NS empty coal car from the US_100T_COALCARS in my trainset.
I cannot vouch for the brake settings...they may need adjusting. The set does perform correctly in OR.

See if your wagons have a light section, see if there are 4 or 5 brackets after the light section.... IF 5 brackets remove the last one to make it 4....which I believe is the correct number.... or remove the light section and use a caboose or a FRED.

SIMISA@@@@@@@@@@JINX0D0t______

Wagon ( ns_empty
comment( NS Coal Car Unloaded)
name ( "coal NS 331315mt" )
Type ( Freight )
WagonShape ( NS_Empty.s )
Size ( 3.1m 3.77019m 14.70m)
comment( 26.7t empty, 117.41t full )
Mass ( 26.7t )

WheelRadius ( 36in/2 )
InertiaTensor ( Box (3.1m 2.7m 14.70m) )
Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1.3e6N/m/s 3.8e6N/m/s )
Break ( 5.4e7N 5.4e7N )
r0 ( 20cm 30cm )
)

Velocity ( 0.12m/s )
)
Coupling (
Type ( Automatic )
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1.3e6N/m/s 3.8e6N/m/s )
Break ( 5.4e7N 5.4e7N )
r0 ( 20cm 30cm )
)
CouplingHasRigidConnection ( 1 )
Velocity ( -0.12m/s )
)
Buffers (
Spring (
Stiffness ( 1e6N/m 5e6N/m )
Damping ( 1.3e6N/m/s 3.8e6N/m/s )
r0 ( 20cm 30cm )
)
Centre ( 0.5 )
Radius ( 1 )
Angle ( 0.5deg )
)

Adheasion ( 0.2 0.4 2 0 )
DerailRailHeight ( 5cm )
DerailRailForce ( 72t )
DerailBufferForce ( 1000kN )
NumWheels ( 8 )
Friction (
521.1N/m/s -0.10 1.7mph 3.787N/m/s 1.973
5.1N/rad/s 1 -1rad/s 0 1
)

BrakeEquipmentType ( "Handbrake, Triple_valve, Auxilary_reservoir, Emergency_brake_reservoir" )
BrakeSystemType ( "Air_single_pipe" )
MaxBrakeForce( 19kN )

MaxHandbrakeForce( 35kN )
NumberOfHandbrakeLeverSteps( 100 )

TripleValveRatio( 2.5 )
MaxReleaseRate( 0.95 )
MaxApplicationRate( 0.50 )
MaxAuxilaryChargingRate( 1.75 )
EmergencyResCapacity( 3.6 )
EmergencyResChargingRate( 1.70 )
BrakeCylinderPressureForMaxBrakeBrakeForce( 63 )
EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 )

Sound ( "../../Common.Snd/TT_Freight_Sound/TT_welded1.sms" )
)

**prr4ever** · 06-09-2015, 23:01

brakes

My MTcar has a different car number for the NS unit. Not that it should make any difference. I do see some difference in some of the brake values. However the ones I use have always worked fine for years in MSTS. I use the same values on the rest of the cars in this particular consist and they all brake fine. ????? I will, just for kicks, put some different locomotives on the front tomorrow. Geting late at night, more like early morning here now.

Thanks for the post.

**R. Steele** · 06-09-2015, 23:47

Originally posted by prr4ever

However the ones I use have always worked fine for years in MSTS. Thanks for the post.

I think I'm lucky, in that I never used MSTS (well for about 2 months until I discovered OR in May 2013) and so never consider if the model worked in MSTS only that it perform in OR...of course I have had to learn what the correct file protocols are, how the files are constructed and how the individual lines are written....and there are plenty of errors in the files that MSTS simply overlooked or misread.

(edit > and honestly, still learning. Most of the posters here and at other forums have had a decade of rooting around in these files to untangle their secrets...large body of knowledge.)

I really am out of my depth here...with the brakes...sorry I could not be of more assistance.

**crstagg** · 06-10-2015, 08:28

Originally posted by R. Steele

Here's the NS empty coal car from the US_100T_COALCARS in my trainset.
I cannot vouch for the brake settings...they may need adjusting. The set does perform correctly in OR.

See if your wagons have a light section, see if there are 4 or 5 brackets after the light section.... IF 5 brackets remove the last one to make it 4....which I believe is the correct number.... or remove the light section and use a caboose or a FRED.

BINGO!!

Just found the original in the file library. They have 5 closing Parens at the end of the Lights section which closes the Wagon section too early.

Dave,

Delete one closing paren just before BrakeEquipmentType.

**prr4ever** · 06-10-2015, 13:02

brakes

Charles,

That is the first thing I looked for in the wags as it is an age old problem. I had corrected mine some years ago and "normally" look them over before putting in the train set.

I am going to take a hard look again at the wags. Every time I have a brake problem I think of this.
The whole thing is...these copies that I have do work in MSTS but not in OR. The extra parens also should affect the brakes in MSTS??

I will zip the wag file and upload it here so everyone can look it over.

Gerry, Thank you for the help. I appreciate your concern. If I discover the reason I will certainly post it here.

Can't upload here. Manage attachments does nt open. will open another post

**prr4ever** · 06-10-2015, 13:21

brakes

Here is the zip wagon file for the no brakes guy's. US 100 Ton Hopper MT.

Brakes look fine to me. I did delete all the "comments" in the one I have in the sim now. Did not change anything.

Attached Files

NW_Coal.zip (1.3 KB, 10 views)

**gkhager** · 06-10-2015, 13:44

Hi Dave,

It looks like the MAXBRAKEFORCE line appears to be VERY low. 0.1652kN converts to about 35 to 36 LBS of brake force! The BRAKECYLINDERPRESSUREFORMAXBRAKEBRAKEFORCE also seems very low. Why this would work in MSTS might be because MSTS has been known to throw out wildly off values and use some min/max range.

Geoff

**prr4ever** · 06-10-2015, 14:18

yeah Geoff,
What I use normally is

Max brake force (35.5kN)
The brakecylinderpressurefor maxbrakeforce is normally (53).

I had made this consist from a back up computer when this one was down. I failed to notice the brake values in this copy you have are not my normal brake values. ( I am swamped in brakes and rolling stock and consists trying to figure this out.) Attache dar the brake values my stock in use have.

However it still seems to be a strange OR thing. I made a whole new consist different engines, different rolling stock, same thing no BC pressure in the first ten or so cars behind the engines, random pressures in the rest. Wierd. Attached is the latest log from OS, not certain if it shows brake values or not. Also a copy of my normal brake set up which I had previously attached.

Attached Files

**crstagg** · 06-10-2015, 14:19

Why all the duplicate Comment lines?

EmergencyBrakeResMaxPressure( 90 ) line in the file twice.

Re: My comment above was based on a file named "US_100T_NS_Coal Car (MT)" from your post #6.

As to Geoff's comments the MSTS ENG/WAG Tech Doc says MAXBRAKEFORCE 10 to 16% of the vehicle mass in newtons. or for the 117ton mass 10.4kN to 16.6kN.

For BRAKECYLINDERPRESSUREFORMAXBRAKEBRAKEFORCE the Tech Doc says normal value of 70 and yours has .5 One half a pound per square inch??????????????