Back to releasing emergency brakes (again)

[prr4ever]

You folks might get tired of all my wacky problems here but here goes again...

Running Kingsford route. Pulling into Dante Yard 1 with 6 Clinchfield engines and 73 loads. Heading north coming in from the south end. About 3/4 into yard 1, the air dumped and the train went into emergency. Why??? No clue. I don't have a conductor to walk the train and I can not leave the engine! Did the sequence, backspace, release brakes, initialize and several combinations of such. When I initialize the BC stays full pressure, equalizer and line dump to 0 and stay there, never building up any pressure. The main stays at max. At the time of initialization the equalizer and train line jump to full pressure and then bleed off to zero rapidly. BC stays full pressure. In the RW I would expect a break in two somewhere. Uncoupled the lead engines, same results.

Log attached.

Dave

[prr4ever]

I should add that this activity runs fine in MSTS. When I dump the air in MSTS it builds up, recharging the train in a normal manner thus eliminating a locomotive problem. (I hope!). (Same consist)

[scottb613]

Hi Dave,

Sounds like you went off the PATH - not sure why it works in MSTS and not in ORTS... In ORTS if you want to go off the PATH - or you get in the situation you described above - hit [Ctrl-M] to put it in manual mode - then the brakes will release... When you are sure you're back on the official PATH - you can again hit [Ctrl-M] to put the sim back in Auto...

Regards,
Scott

[Don6218]

I have had that issue crop up once or twice and it boiled down to the "Path" issue when OR gets its information, I guess. It always seemed to come up with a path issue in the log, even though everything went as usual in MSTS. If you are coming into a yard with lots of switches, try stopping and going into manual to throw the switch you need, chances are that it will work. I have found that to be a solution, partially. I haven't run into that issue for quite some time, so it may also have to do with what version of OR you are in.

[Vince]

.............snip................................. ...
Did the sequence, backspace, release brakes, initialize and several combinations of such. When I initialize the BC stays full pressure, equalizer and line dump to 0 and stay there, never building up any pressure. The main stays at max. .................................................. .snip.......................................Log attached.Dave

Hi Dave,
Be advised that the [BACKSPACE] key is a 'Toggle'. i.e. it is a Emergency Button that stays in the last position it was put in.
IOW, if you never hit it to PUT the train into Emergency if you get an 'unexplained' emergency set then pressing the [BACKSPACE] button will set it into the emergency position.
The sequence is thus;
1. Your train goes into emergency for some unknown reason.
2. At some point during recovery you press the [BACKSPACE] key while you are IN emergency is now a SECOND reason why you are in emergency!

As to the original cause of the air dump you need to look for other causes and a good place to start is the F4 Track Monitor.
It will show the cause of the emergency application.

The ONLY time you ever want to press that [BACKSPACE] key is to put your train into emergency.
Once that key is pressed no amount of initializing brakes will release it until the [BACKSPACE] key is pressed a second time.

The [BACKSPACE] key has to be pressed a second time (remember it's a toggle; Emergency ON/Emergency OFF).

Press once, Emergency set AND LOCKED! Press a second time, Emergency Released.
Think of it as one of those big red mushroom shaped buttons. When you press it, it stays pressed in and has to be manually pulled out to it's operating position.
(that's real world operation but we have to simulate that with a keyboard key that doesn't stay pused in)

So as you pull into the yard you go into emergency. If during your attempt to recover your train you press the [BACKSPACE] emergency key your train now has TWO things keeping it in emergency, the first still unknown reason and the second, your press of the [BACKSPACE] key.
Attempting to initialize brakes at this point is futile because there are two reasons holding your train in emergency.

Bottom line: If your train goes into Emergency for some unknown reason, stay away from the [BACKSPACE] key as it will only add to your problems.

all best,

[prr4ever]

Emergency brakes

Thanks Vince, excellent explaination!

To all the rest of you I 99% of the time operate in manual so the path is not much of a concern. I do a lot of pick ups and drops along the route so need to be off path a lot.

HOWEVER.. In further running the act in MSTS with the path through Dante yard I discovered this. At about the point OR goes into emergency in MSTS the train does seperate into that mysterious MSTS thing where part of the consist to the rear, or about the middle, the second half jumps to a paralell track but continues to follow the front half. When it reaches a merging switch it attatches itself to the train again. I have seen this before but it is not much of a problem in MSTS except under certion conditions. However in OR it seems to sense the break in two and dumps the air. I suppose this is a TDB problem?

So, my next question...when, in OS, you get a BIT and dump the air, what is the procedure to reconnect to the part left behind? Vince got me straightened out on the emergency reset problem. However with the consist parted it will not pump up the air. What is the method to recouple the break? If this is a TDB problem it will probably continue to break in half. I will run through the yard on a different track and see if it is simply a single yard track problem.

[Vince]

....................snip.......................... ...... If this is a TDB problem it will probably continue to break in half. I will run through the yard on a different track and see if it is simply a single yard track problem.

Best would be to run the Route_Riter [ICHK] test found on the RR TSUtils Tab.
THIS will quickly prove out if the routes TDB has problems.
regards,

[prr4ever]

emer brakes.

I agree Vince. Unfortunatly, for what reason I don't know, RR screws up on this machine. This is a backup system, not as powerfull as my dead one. I bought a refurbished duplicate of the dead one and have to get it set up. Change over the hard drives, graphics card etc. Weekends are mostly family doings so probably be early next week I can get into all this. RR has it's problems with Java. I have Java, RR says I don't. I had that all straightened out on the other computer. Have to work on the new on next week.

[Vince]

Well Dave there is another method that can sometimes show a TDB error. The Activity Editor!

Since the Activity Editor uses the TDB to generate the map, sometimes a closeup examination of the map at the point the problem happens can be seen.

Here a couple of examples of what to look for. The first is blatent, jumps out at you. The second is more subtle; almost looks like switches or crossovers but notice no tracknodes. (the black dots)
These are both TDB problems. Not fatal though. I won't name the route other that to say it doesn't seem to affect activities through the locations. (with the caveat that I have not personally run a train through all possible paths at these locations. )

Look for something, anything odd with the track lines on the Editor map like these examples.
TDB_Corrupt01.jpgTDB_Corrupt02.jpg

A word on zooming in close to the Activity Editor map: It's been known to crash the editor if the your desktop screen resolution is set to 32 bit.
For close examination of the map set your screen resolution to 16 bit.
Regards,

[prr4ever]

Thanks Vince,

I am having a problem with the editor crashing when I expand it. Running MSTS in 1080x1024x16, monitor screen res set for 1920x1080.

As soon as I expand enough to start separating out individual tracks to add some consists or look closely at the track the editor quits. This is only happening on this computer. This system has only two cores and my others have 4 or more cores and have no problem. Don't know if I am overwhelming the processor or not. With the editors on, core 1 runs between 95-100%. Core 2 at about 50-60 %. The refurbished comp I bought does not boot so that has to go back. I am stuck with this one for now. However I used to run MSTS and the editors with a lot less system than this one with no problems so I am kind of at a loss on the editor problem. Maybe I will set the monitor to a lower resolution and try that. Won't be full screen but to use the editor it does not matter.

Dave

[prr4ever]

Vince,
Tried some different monitor resolutions. Did not solve the problem. Expand the activity editor enough to work on the individual yards, tracks etc and it fails. Oh well c'est la vie!

[Snowman]

Thanks Vince,

I am having a problem with the editor crashing when I expand it. Running MSTS in 1080x1024x16, monitor screen res set for 1920x1080.

Set your resolution to 1024x768. I know in XP at least I had this issue years ago and that resolution always worked.

[Vince]

Make that 1024x768x16

[prr4ever]

emer brakes

That was a little better Vince...Still exits however before I get it expanded enough. I just got the refurbished system up so will spend most of Monday setting it up and hope the editors will be back to working again. (fingers crossed!!)

I do have an older XP machine, editors work fine with it.. Go figure! I do not have MSTS upgraded on that machine though, meaning all my routes and stuff for the past 5 years. I will chug along here and post what I have once I get everything set up.

I do certainly appreciate your help and efforts. I purchased MSTS the day it was first sold and have used it constantly since. Now working to learn OR!