Derailments in OpenRails

[Dad]

I wonder if there are any derailments in OpenRails like Microsoft Train Simulator where the trains just fly off the tracks. I wonder too if the team will be coding them in because it looks really ugly for a train at 160 mph stop when it reaches a buffer. All the physics are great but there are no use for the Alerters and stuff like that if there are not any derailments. Will we see this feature in future releases?
Thank you for answering.

[eric]

On the Top 100 list of enhancements, this is number 2,639.


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[dedwa15237]

Derailments? Really?

[baldwin]

If derailments were ever coded into OR, they would not result in cars flying off the track. The activity would pause for a set amount of time and a message would be displayed on the screen. A real low priority objective.

[peaches461999]

I for one have come to accept and actually like that fact that this is a low priority. But I have to question the OP's logic on alerters not being needed due to the lack of OR derailment. If I am not mistaken, the alerter is in place to ensure the crew are both awake, and if there is no response to the alerter, emergency braking is applied bringing the train to a hopefully safe stop. Alerters first priority is not to prevent derailment. Its first priority is making sure that the train still has human input controlling the operation of the train. If not it goes into a safety shutdown.

[Traindude]

I do understand the reason why OR doesn't model derailments. Some players might want to deliberately derail their train just for fun--something we DO NOT want to encourage. I haven't obtained OR for myself (still waiting to see how well it does in general), but I do believe that if a player creates a condition which would cause a derailment in real life (going around a curve too fast, hitting something, coupling too hard, running off the end of a siding or spur, etc.) the activity would end automatically at the point of contact (just like if a player runs a red signal). Just my thoughts.

[NW 2156]

I think this was decision based off the fact we have real world railroaders on here that have been through grade crossing accidents or derailments. Also in the early days of MSTS there was alot of issues with the kiddies having MSTS crash competitions. There was even a site dedicated to MSTS Crashes.

Lets also not forget that some railways have stipulations that there locomotives, cars, textures, logos, cannot be defaced in such a matter as showing of derailments.

This was a stipulation when Chris Longhurst released the first Eurostar trainset and remains in the readme files for the last version as well.

That said, I would still like even just the crappy msts derailments with some refinements and that dreaded message that pops up. Something would be better than nothing.

That all being said, Derailments could be fun or part of the challenge of working a future hump yard ability on something like Jim "Sniper" Wards Port Ogden & Northern railroad. Ahh, The good ole days of MSTS.

Robert

[conductorchris]

Hmmm. Players might want to derail for fun. Traindude might actually be making the case for including them.

It's not just a moral decision here though. It is also that the developers have other things to work on - both overall priorities for the project and their personal priorities as volunteers.

Christopher

[R. Steele]

Also to be considered is the time and effort for volunteers to actually code derailments and then debug the code to make sure everything derails in a realistic manner...not a simple thing to do. While I do not speak for the OR Development team I have read their responses to this request that they would much prefer to spend their time (that they volunteer) to write and implement code that improves actual train ops and prototypical behaviors.

Consider, since this is an open source program a person could branch off and make derailments. Any volunteers (GADS I sincerely hope not!)

[Snowman]

I think a lot of the "kiddies" from the early days are gone, no? Theyre probably crashing trains in RailWorks and arent worried about MSTS style 90s graphics. Point being, the game looks better, so crashes look better. MSTS isnt the only train in town any longer. The thing I see most in these threads are how these engineers have been through something traumatic and its out of respect for them. So, simulating a simple derailment in a yard would bring back PTSD? Second, if its train crash videos you speak of, wouldnt these traumatized engineers have to seek these videos, or sites in order to view them? Lastly, if you journey past the trainsim website there are plenty of worse real world video and pictures to see than what could be modeled in OR.

When someone brings up derailments, most want a consequence for their actions. I dunno, like the real world. It always instantly goes to train crashing videos and kiddies from eleven years ago. Same talking points. I dont think derailments should be priority number one, but if youre so traumatized by your accident, you shouldnt be driving a locomotive and if a 90s graphical style version gets your anxiety up then I recommend treatment by a psychological professional and not a virtual railroad hobby.

[eric]

I'd guess 95% of all derailments (e.g. those not involving an actual collision) are nothing more than wheels off the tracks with the cars remaining upright. Occassionally a few cars dump over catastrophically, but that's the exception more than the norm.

If anyone does program in derailments, it should be a simple "end of activity" message.

Having cars and locomotives going airborne is simply immature & childish.

[geepster775]

Flying railcars that go airborne is non-proto, and no, that doesn't have to be brought forward into OR. But there is nothing wrong with real world derailment physics being brought into the fold. Things like railcars that accordion in a major derailment and block all main tracks, or minor derailments that cause cars to lean but not necessarily foul one track on a two or three track main, or string-lining cars caused by outrageously bad train handling on curvy grades, all those are real world and legit content that could be incorporated. Events that lead to sim-triggered UDE. Absolutely NOTHING wrong with bringing those types of events into this sim.

Save the world this argument that its too traumatic for real world hoggers. That is political correctness at its finest. Kiddies who want to see railcars go airborne are a far lesser threat than the PC police forces guarding real world hoggers from re-living electronic tragedy.

If anyone does program in derailments, it should be a simple "end of activity" message.

Not necessarily. Nothing wrong with leaving your derailed cars behind and running for the end terminal. Or have a AI freight encounter a sim-induced minor derailment, say on the NEC, and forcing all the passenger traffic to fleet through on the one remaining open track. Waiting for your slot and running that gauntlet is 90% of the fun right there.

[muskokaandtahoe]

The answer is the OR team discussed it very early in the project and made a decision not to do MSTS style derailments out of respect to the men and women who have been injured or died in such accidents. Their loss was not a game and the team felt it would be very disrespectful to code that sort of thing as entertainment. The issue of prioritizing derailments over or under other features never came up.

Morons who don't agree can go and write their own simulator.

I was part of that discussion so I think this answer is enough to answer the question.

[dredick]

But there is nothing wrong with real world derailment physics being brought into the fold.

I concur with that. Not having a "sim" NOT model something in the real-world is not "realistic', IMHO.

Real world derailments are an ACCIDENT, and should be modeled in OR as such.

No one can control what an end user does with the product, simply.

[Dad]

Thank you for answering, this has been an interesting thread. I did not know that people actually did crash competitions on MSTS. I respect Open Rails's decision to not do "over the top" train crashes. Also, how do you make Random AI traffic, as I am on Windows 8 and my Activity Editor is kind of screwy?