Is anyone writing OR format .eng files?

[plainsman]

UP Thunder, I think your example may be an AC locomotive, and the complexity gets a lot greater for those. I can show how it is done on an AC unit, but the math gets a bit more complex, and that will confuse everyone.
Looking at your post a bit more, I am trying to understand a little of the format? What are the units on the data you show? How did you determine the adhesion percentages you show? I do see one error, I don't know if this is an OR fault or specific to your data, but as the notch drops, minimum continuous speed will fall, but the minimum continuous force will stay the same (looking at the equation, dropping a notch, is just lowering the available power. Since the tractive effort slope of a DC electric motor will become very steep as speed gets slow, the maximum continuous force will be reached in each notch just at slower and slower speeds, but really is a mute point at the low power notches.

[UP_4848_Thunder]

Yea they both are AC Units first one a UP ES44AC an last one a SD70ACe.

DC SD70M

ORTSContinuousForceTimeFactor( 300 )
ORTSMaxTractiveForceCurves (
0 ( 0.47 0.69 2.0 0 )
0.063 (
0 38619
5.30 31132.0
5.53 30717.2
8.9408 19013.9
13.4112 12675.9
17.8816 9506.9
22.352 7605.5
26.8224 6337.9
31.2928 5432.5
31.528 0
)
0.120 (
0 73560
5.30 69811.3
5.53 68662.0
8.9408 42501.7
13.4112 28334.5
17.8816 21250.9
22.352 17000.7
26.8224 14167.2
31.2928 12143.3
31.528 0
)
0.250 (
0 153250
5.30 234905.6
5.53 226223.2
8.9408 140032.2
13.4112 93354.8
17.8816 70016.1
22.352 56012.8
26.8224 46677.4
31.2928 40009.2
31.528 0
)
0.340 (
0 208420
5.30 311320.7
5.53 299041.1
8.9408 185106.4
13.4112 123404.3
17.8816 92553.2
22.352 74042.6
26.8224 61702.1
31.2928 52887.5
31.528 0
)
0.553 (
0 338989
5.30 423584.9
5.53 406732.1
8.9408 251767.1
13.4112 167844.7
17.8816 125883.5
22.352 100706.8
26.8224 83922.4
31.2928 71933.4
31.528 0
)
0.700 (
0 429100
5.30 469245.2
5.53 449916.9
8.9408 278498.5
13.4112 185665.7
17.8816 139249.2
22.352 111399.4
26.8224 92832.8
31.2928 79571.0
31.528 0
)
0.860 (
0 527180
5.30 481886.7
5.53 461842.4
8.9408 285880.4
13.4112 190586.9
17.8816 142940.2
22.352 114352.1
26.8224 95293.4
31.2928 81680.1
31.528 0
)
1 (
0 613200
5.30 484860
5.53 464584.0
8.9408 287577.5
13.4112 191718.3
17.8816 143788.7
22.352 115031.0
26.8224 95859.1
31.2928 82165.0
31.528 0
)
)
)

[plainsman]

What is "ORTSContinuousForceTimeFactor( 300 )"?
EMD throttle notch on turbo units won't be as shown.

[baldwin]

Bob
Two questions
1. Have you taken an FT and compared the OR output with your calculated figures?. If yes, by how much are the OR figures different?.
2. Have you looked at the physics section of the OR manual?.

[Bananarama]

I'm currently experimenting with new F-Units for use in OR and I would be very interested to see how this turns out.

[plainsman]

In reverse order:
Hi Marc,
Anything I can do to help, you know I am always willing to do what I can. I am trying to understand how the inputs format?? The physics section of the manual leaves a LOT unanswered??? When I try to clarify in the OR forum over at ET, the guy that wrote the physics section is very busy, in Europe, and thinks I am some kid wanting to get my train to go, so he answers with "you can move the sliders to make the train go up the hill"? It looks like the force table is in Newtons, but I don't understand the speed unit? The adhesion line can't be used from the MSTS files as there is no NumWheels, so those values are 2X too great. I don't know what the third value 2 is doing in the adhesion line in OR??
Hi Baldwin,
1 I don't know how to get the format input correctly in OR format, but if you use a file written for MSTS, it will generally overperform for old first generation types in OR. The reason, I think program defaults to something along the lines of an SD60 in terms of default transmission efficiency and adhesion control. It will be very close on second and third generation DC units. It is way off for a ES44AC, those way underperform, and don't behave correctly with MSTS files. I don't know how those will be able to model in true OR format, as I don't know how to get the data in as yet?? The manual leaves a lot of questions???

[OTTODAD]

I have been a Maerklin-H0 / 1 and LGB digital railway modeller for decades before getting hooked on Train Simulators, mainly because of the latter's great variety of worldwide scenery, choice of tracks and rolling stock, costing little compared with model railways, lack of space not being an issue !

At no time have I been concerned with the physics of what was running on their tracks and neither was anybody else.

I could not use an instant "Tracks-Changer" in their layouts like I can now in Train Simulators, neither did they have seasons or weather !

Train Simulators trying to "simulate" the real world physics used by their huge variety of rolling stock have suffered from lack of accurate railways engineering know-how, guys like Bob have improved on !

But most Train Simulator players of all ages and sexes are not concerned with their physics accuracy. All they want is being able to drive trains more or less like they could with their model railways layouts, if they could afford them, but now can using Train Simulators, which have almost unlimited everything from good looking scenery to rolling stock.

Most MSTSBin and Railworks trains can be driven more or less like I want them to and that is all I am interested in, being able to make simple modifications to their efficient running and braking in their files and scripts !

[UP_4848_Thunder]

What is "ORTSContinuousForceTimeFactor( 300 )"?
EMD throttle notch on turbo units won't be as shown.

That's the number of seconds a units motors can take till it lowers an weakens down to the continuous force where you have to give it time to cool off on a DC. For AC units I tend to make it very high into days or weeks.

Too see some experimenting true cooking an weakening of a struggling climbing DC motor or even powering up big while brakes are set for a length of time you will see force under speed climb down. For eng files with Traction curves applied, try setting your original MSTS MaxContinuous Force down to 0 an watch the motors die out depending on how much time factor seconds you set.

[plainsman]

Otto, Not to be obtuse, but if you don't enjoy the physics process, why bother to comment for those that do? I certainly don't downplay the things you have done to add to the program, your work is appreciated!!

[plainsman]

UP Thunder, Thanks for the units on motor decay time. Do you know the units for speed in your table?

[Gary54]

Speaking for myself, I am hopeful that all of Bob's work on engine physics will be fully implemented into OR. For several years, I have religiously upgraded all rolling stock, especially engines, using Bob's physics parameters. It's a time consuming process, but well worth the effort. Thanks for your history of work on this aspect of the sim, Bob.

Gary

[UP_4848_Thunder]

UP Thunder, Thanks for the units on motor decay time. Do you know the units for speed in your table?

If your talking about the traction curve speeds than yes. RPM speeds an HP loading based on real life research than yes.

ORTS reads curve speeds in MS.
example template:

MPH=MS
20=8.9408
30=13.4112
40=17.8816
50=22.352
60=26.8224
70=31.2928
75=33.528

AC44 in Run 8 example C44AC @ 2980Kw (3997HP) Traction Curves:
1 (
0 798455.78
4.1 798455.78
4.12 644992.13
8.9408 333303
11.176 266642
13.4112 222202
15.6464 190459
17.8816 166651
20.1168 148134
22.352 133321
24.5872 121201
26.8224 111101
29.0576 102554
31.2928 95229
33.5 53580.75
33.51 0
)
)
)


I have a single file of all the traction curves I have made an experimented an test units if your interested.

[OTTODAD]

Otto, Not to be obtuse, but if you don't enjoy the physics process, why bother to comment for those that do? I certainly don't downplay the things you have done to add to the program, your work is appreciated!!

Just saying how I feel on that subject, not downplaying what you do nor what others like and am wondering whether there are some who feel like me !

Whatever, don't stop what you are doing to improve whatever for those who appreciate it, as it has not stopped me doing what I like, others may have appreciated !

[UP_4848_Thunder]

Some other ORTS parameter factors still yet a experiment in progress but some of them are satisfying related to braking an some may be annoying. Not all are needed an are optional but hey some units I have been inside of watching tests has some stuttering bouncy BP at times an they get steady still when the train line BP gets equalized.

ORTSAirBrakesMainresvolume ( 39 )
ORTSMainResChargingRate ( 3.9 )
ORTSBrakePipeChargingRate ( 30 )
ORTSEngineBrakeReleaseRate ( 38 )----Helpful for ORTS an raildriver independent Braking
ORTSEngineBrakeApplicationRate ( 34 )-----Helpful for ORTS an raildriver independent Braking
ORTSBrakePipeTimeFactor ( 0.008221323 )----Brake Pipe timing of whole train. The lower the faster, the higher even at 1 digit the slower the charging. Can be good for switching units doing switching with easy gradual angle cock opening.

ORTSBrakeServiceTimeFactor ( 0.19146 )-----Just like BP time factor but setting the train brakes.
ORTSBrakeEmergencyTimeFactor ( .015 )----Time factor for the train in emergency.

[crstagg]

I'm currently experimenting with new F-Units for use in OR and I would be very interested to see how this turns out.

Best news in quite a while.