Conquering Saluda in OpenRails

[Snowman]

Disclaimer** Im no rivet counter or real world engineer. I am however curious if OpenRails can closely replicate the Saluda video many of you have seen on youtube. I created the consist in the video as closely as possible, only substituting SD40-2s for SD45s.

I ran the same exact amount of cars mentioned in the video and synced the Saluda videos audio to my video to translate the real world to game world applications. Im not claiming to have done everything right but am curious to your reactions and if anyone else has ran as true as possible in the Saluda video to see if they could match real world to OpenRails.

To my disappointment I could not. Probably my own fault. Thats why I supplied the video so when you get bored you can watch it and have fun pointing out my mistakes. Im just curious to if others have ran Saluda prototypical and maybe I can learn a thing or two while Im at it. Anyway heres the video link. This forum doesnt display youtube videos right in my browser. Probably a problem on my end.

Options that are turned on in OR:

Graduated Release Air Brakes
Break Couplers
Curve Dependent Resistance
Curve Dependent Speed Limit
Tunnel Dependent Resistance
Advanced Adhesion set to 10
Adhesion factor is set to Hard 10%
Adhesion proportional to rain/snow ect is checked.
Adhesion Factor correction is set to %130

I would like to also point out that I tried to set 40 head end cars to high pressure position and still lost control. No video of that though

[Bananarama]

This forum doesnt display youtube videos right in my browser. Probably a problem on my end.

You need to remove the 's' in "https" in order to display, then use the forum options to link to the unsecured video.

[scottb613]

Hi Dan,

Nice job on the video... First thing that comes to mind - are the locomotives and cars setup for ORTS ? There are a bunch of custom values that can be added to modify the performance in ORTS... I know ORTS uses the Davis Friction Coefficients from FCALC - where I don't think MSTS does - from my limited experimentation - adding the ORTS friction parameters makes the cars have more drag which might make your train easier to handle...

My next thought - how would MSTS handle the same scenario ?

[R. Steele]

Snowman:
For the Route I assume you are referring to these files in library saluda.zip and saludort.zip.
Activity and consist info would help.
Would like to try.

[frankoburns]

Watch the video...your consist questions are answered there..

[R. Steele]

Watch the video...your consist questions are answered there..

Got it frank..., also had not downloaded route yet (gee, how did I miss this one, looks good) and it seems everything is also explained in the docs that come with the route.
I do read those, always have. Don't have a panic attach, there are some of us who do.
Anyway, Thanks.

[frankoburns]

I already had the route installed, but hadn't run it since it's initial release..It's well done...I duplicated the consist and power arrangements using some SP SD45's I had on hand..(I have very little Southern and NS power)..Ran the "activity" mentioned in the video under MSTS and found because of the braking limitations of the sim, it's almost impossible to duplicate the run prototypically using the same equipment..however, the run was far from unsafe..I was able to maintain train speed of under 20 mph on the downhill side (prototype mandates 8 mph) using full dynamics and intermitant train brake applications..MSTS limitations don't allow you to keep a reserve supply while recharging the brakes and the cars don't have a reserve valve that can be manually changed...but all in all, it was a fun ride down the mountain with a really heavy train! Plan to try it in Open Rails after supper..I'll let ya know how that run turns out..Watch your speed after milepost 30 (8 MPH max) or be ready to change the safety switch....otherwise you'll end up on the run-away safety track! Yippee!!

[conductorchris]

Didn't see mention of retainers.

[frankoburns]

On the prototype, retainers on the 20 cars behind the engines were set to the "high pressure position"..something else you can't do in the sim.(as you probably already know, Chris, it allows you to keep the brake on while recharging the system) .its in the prototype video..I'm not an engineer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9IABM8UPplY

[Vince]

Retainers: MSTS no. Open Rails yes?

[Snowman]

First thing that comes to mind - are the locomotives and cars setup for ORTS ? There are a bunch of custom values that can be added to modify the performance in ORTS... I know ORTS uses the Davis Friction Coefficients from FCALC -

Thanks for the thoughts Scott. After messing with FCalc most of the evening and setting some OpenRails parameters in wagon files, Ive came up with something Im happy with and can traverse the five percent grade at 8mph and braking with air and dynamics as needed with retainers set on the first 20 cars to high pressure setting. Ive ran it twice and am quite happy with the results as air and dynamics should be applied at about the same times as in the protoype video.

I had one wagon that was way off and was 1/3 off my original consist. Using Davis Coefficients settings made the difference as the friction values were close besides the one wagon that was way off. Adding these settings to my wagon file:

Comment ( *** Friction *** )

ORTSBearingType ( Roller )

ORTSDavis_A ( 1058.00 )
ORTSDavis_B ( 16.4530 )
ORTSDavis_C ( 1.400056 )

As calculated by FCalc 2.0 brought me to where I needed to be and no more out of control train. I was blown away how much difference those settings made. This will be done in all my rolling stock in the future for sure. I will post a follow up video soon. Thanks again.

[Snowman]

Snowman:
For the Route I assume you are referring to these files in library saluda.zip and saludort.zip.
Activity and consist info would help.
Would like to try.

Yes, although I didnt download saludort.zip as I must be using default scaleroad textures? I think that download is optional. Great route as it keeps me on my toes.

Plan to try it in Open Rails after supper..I'll let ya know how that run turns out..

Please do. Id like to know how it goes.

[markus1996]

Retainers: MSTS no. Open Rails yes?

MSTS: IDK
ORTS: Exactly!

Cheers, Markus

[rlkimbal]

What is not mentioned in the film, is the fact that the rest of the cars on the train have their retainers set to the 'slow direct release' position. This is a key point in the use of cycle braking on Saluda. Also the braking ratio values in the 'wag' files are probably not the same as the prototype Silversides. Most hopper cars will not sit still on Saluda in emergency. Some of the N&W people were quite shocked to see their cars start creeping now the mountain after being put into emergency.

Dick Kimball

[frankoburns]

You are correct, Dick..Trying to run the mountain in Open Rails with equipment specs for MSTS physics works only marginally..First run in ORTS last night was a disaster. I need to sit down and redo the wag files on the cars using the friction numbers posted above. Also need to experiment with FCALC on brake settings and set the parameters for this Trainset to Open Rails...I normally hate doing physics stuff but this might be kind of fun...