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Having these files in the Open Rails category is only a temporary problem. In an upcoming release these files will not work in Open Rails either and will need to be patched to work in both MSTS and Open Rails.
With a patch to the shape files the models in the Open Rails category of the file library will work in both MSTS and Open Rails. Without a patch they will not work in either MSTS or the next version of Open Rails.
I don't mean to drag this thread even further off topic but...
Originally posted by krausyao
With a patch to the shape files the models in the Open Rails category of the file library will work in both MSTS and Open Rails. Without a patch they will not work in either MSTS or the next version of Open Rails.
If the current version of Open Rails can run everything that is currently in the file library... Why will the next version of Open Rails require patches for everything that is currently in the file library in order to be able to run it?
If existing MSTS content in the File Library runs in MSTS. Then there is no need for patches to still run it in MSTS, since the files in the file library are unchanged, and MSTS has not changed either. MSTS is NOT supposed to run Open Rails Designed Content.
Originally posted by eric
If the creator/uploader isn't planning to support it in MSTS, please don't put them in the position of having to field the questions on why it won't work for someone in MSTS.
I believe the expanded meaning of this original statement was...
Not everything designed for Open Rails will be backwards compatible with MSTS ( Probably most of it ), and if that file gets moved from the Open Rails category to the MSTS Category, members will assume that they can use that file in MSTS without problems. Using it error free in MSTS is highly unlikely, and the Creator will get a ton of complaints. Since the creator is most likely not using MSTS anymore ( or maybe even never ), odds are, there will never be any backwards compatibility fixes done. This will cause even more issues. So having Open Rails content moved from the Open Rails Category to the MSTS Category is not something that should be done.
REMEMBER: MSTS is the OLD sim, and is being replaced with Open Rails the NEW sim which is supposed to be better and does more. Also Open Rails is supposed to run existing MSTS Content "as is"... (That is what is nice about it!) Since MSTS has numerous design restrictions, Compared to Open Rails, No one has to make MSTS Compatible Content anymore if they don't want to.
Currently there is MSTS content that does not work in Open Rails. A post at http://www.streamlines.ca/phpBB3/vie...php?f=24&t=454 shows a distorted bridge. There are still bugs to fix to get Open Rails content compatible with MSTS.
When Open Rails is content compatible then content that works in MSTS will work in Open Rails. This also implies that content that does not work in MSTS will not work in Open Rails.
Any content that is designed to run in Open Rails also needs to work in MSTS. If it does not work in MSTS but works in Open Rails then Open Rails will be patched until it no longer works in Open Rails just like in MSTS.
Probably the best solution is to eliminate the Open Rails category in the file library, patch the content so it works in MSTS and then repost the content. There should not be an Open Rails category since all content that works in Open Rails should also work in MSTS.
The method to ensure that future content is MSTS compatible for those who don't use MSTS is for Open Rails to reject and not show content that is not MSTS compatible.
Currently there is MSTS content that does not work in Open Rails. A post at http://www.streamlines.ca/phpBB3/vie...php?f=24&t=454 shows a distorted bridge. There are still bugs to fix to get Open Rails content compatible with MSTS.
When Open Rails is content compatible then content that works in MSTS will work in Open Rails. This also implies that content that does not work in MSTS will not work in Open Rails.
Any content that is designed to run in Open Rails also needs to work in MSTS. If it does not work in MSTS but works in Open Rails then Open Rails will be patched until it no longer works in Open Rails just like in MSTS.
Probably the best solution is to eliminate the Open Rails category in the file library, patch the content so it works in MSTS and then repost the content. There should not be an Open Rails category since all content that works in Open Rails should also work in MSTS.
The method to ensure that future content is MSTS compatible for those who don't use MSTS is for Open Rails to reject and not show content that is not MSTS compatible.
By doing this you are ensuring that payware vendors who have developed (or are developing) OR-only content may not develop any future OR-only content based on your proposed restrictions.
Can you give some specific examples of content that works in Open Rails but not in MSTS? The only content I have seen that works in Open Rails but not in MSTS has been because the content was damaged and not that unique features of Open Rails were used in that content.
Can you give some specific examples of content that works in Open Rails but not in MSTS? The only content I have seen that works in Open Rails but not in MSTS has been because the content was damaged and not that unique features of Open Rails were used in that content.
Recently released payware by Dekosoft. Is that what you are referring to by "damaged content"?
The shape files recently released by Dekosoft are not valid shape files. There are also some files in the library here that are also not valid shape files. Some of the problems are too many polys in a tri-list or invalid values in sub-object header. Since these shapes can be patched to work with MSTS demonstrates that they do not use any unique features of Open Rails.
Currently there is MSTS content that does not work in Open Rails. A post at http://www.streamlines.ca/phpBB3/vie...php?f=24&t=454 shows a distorted bridge. There are still bugs to fix to get Open Rails content compatible with MSTS.
Yes. Open Rails is still a work in progress, Beta Software, and most likely it will still be, until Version 1.0 is released. "Bugs" like this are expected until then.
Originally posted by krausyao
When Open Rails is content compatible then content that works in MSTS will work in Open Rails.
OK
Originally posted by krausyao
This also implies that content that does not work in MSTS will not work in Open Rails.
First, why would anyone upload "MSTS DESIGNED CONTENT" that does not work in the MSTS SIM ENGINE? I have yet to see this...
Obviously if it does not work in the MSTS SIM ENGINE, it probably will not work Open Rails Either.
REPEATING MYSELF AGAIN... THE MSTS SIM ENGINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN "OPEN RAILS ONLY DESIGNED CONTENT"
Originally posted by krausyao
Any content that is designed to run in Open Rails also needs to work in MSTS.
No it does not...
MSTS is now approaching 14 Years Old! The SIM Engine Itself is severly outdated, when compared to newer Sims, in Graphics Quality and Resolution Sizes and it only runs in FULLSCREEN mode, & Memory Management is poor. It is VERY outdated. Microsoft now longer supports it. MSTSBin Updates are no longer be created. Newer Microsoft Windows Operating Systems with Certain Graphic Cards are no longer able to run the MSTS SIM ENGINE.
Basically the MSTS SIM ENGINE is "Dead". There is no more that can be done with it.
That is Why Open Rails came in to existence. TO REPLACE it.
Everyone is supposed to go to Open Rails, and basically throw the MSTS SIM ENGINE in to the Trash, and take Railroad Simulations in to the future.
To Sweeten the POT, Open Rails is being designed to use the old MSTS Designed Content, Such as Routes, Locomotives, & Rolling Stock...Since there is SO Much diversity in the File Library!
Originally posted by krausyao
If it does not work in MSTS but works in Open Rails then Open Rails will be patched until it no longer works in Open Rails just like in MSTS.
REPEATING MYSELF AGAIN... THE MSTS SIM ENGINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN "OPEN RAILS ONLY DESIGNED CONTENT
OPEN RAILS will NOT be patched to prevent "OPEN RAILS ONLY DESIGNED CONTENT" from being able to be used. That makes no sense!
Originally posted by krausyao
Probably the best solution is to eliminate the Open Rails category in the file library, patch the content so it works in MSTS and then repost the content.
There is no need to make "OPEN RAILS ONLY DESIGNED CONTENT" compatible with the MSTS Sim Engine, since the MSTS Sim Engine is slated to be Trashed!
Originally posted by krausyao
There should not be an Open Rails category since all content that works in Open Rails should also work in MSTS.
No.
Originally posted by krausyao
The method to ensure that future content is MSTS compatible for those who don't use MSTS is for Open Rails to reject and not show content that is not MSTS compatible.
REPEATING MYSELF AGAIN... THE MSTS SIM ENGINE IS NOT SUPPOSED TO RUN "OPEN RAILS ONLY DESIGNED CONTENT".
While Open Rails will replace the MSTS sim engine it will not replace the file formats. There is no content that has been designed to work just with Open Rails because they both use the same file formats.
Until Open Rails supports additional files formats such as GeoPcDx there will be no content designed for Open Rails that does not work in MSTS. If it works in Open Rails but not in MSTS then there is a defect in the file format of the content and Open Rails should not recognize defective content. It should log an error on startup and not crash but also not display the defective content.
An analogy is audio CDs which are encoded at 44.1kH at 16-bits. If someone developed a CD player that played standard audio CDs but also played audio CDs encoded at 48kH then it is playing incompatible content. The new player should be patched to reject CDs encoded at 48kH to avoid confusion with standard CDs encoded at 44.1kH.
For truth in labeling, the section in the library named Open Rails - Open Rails Rolling Stock should instead be named Microsoft Train Simulator - Damaged since this content was not designed for Open Rails.
Last edited by kraus; 01-01-2015, 22:12.
Reason: added comment on library name
Having these files in the Open Rails category is only a temporary problem. In an upcoming release these files will not work in Open Rails either and will need to be patched to work in both MSTS and Open Rails.
"Upcoming Release" Will you stop the BS? I don't know when the work on Open Rails began, but the first post on Elvas Tower in the Open Rails section was on Feb 10, 2010 almost 5 years ago and we have not seen version 1.0 yet!!!!! When will version 2.0 be out 2020?
The "upcoming release" by Open Rails will be 1.0. Which is supposed to be capable of running MSTS routes and rolling stock. Quoting from the Open Rails Web site: "Our project provides a train simulator for the largest collection of digital content in the world - routes, rolling stock and activities - initially developed for Microsoft's Train Simulator product (MSTS)." http://www.openrails.org/discover/open-rails/ Sounds to me like any model that will run in MSTS will run in OR. And who cares if models written for OR won't work in MSTS?
Until Open Rails supports additional files formats such as GeoPcDx there will be no content designed for Open Rails that does not work in MSTS. If it works in Open Rails but not in MSTS then there is a defect in the file format of the content and Open Rails should not recognize defective content. It should log an error on startup and not crash but also not display the defective content.
Then Explain to me about .dds Texture Files...
The last time I purchased one of SLI's Open Rails Compatible TrainSets...
It included .ace texture files & .dds texture files.
I has explained to me that .dds texture files are better. Yet shape files can not be loaded in the MSTS SIM ENGINE referencing .dds Files. Only .ace files. There is nothing wrong with the shapes, since it will load in MSTS referencing .ace files, and it will load in Open Rails referencing .dds Files.
Since the .dds files will not work in MSTS, what you just proposed means that all .dds files need to be scrapped!
Doing so Limits Open Rails, and negates the whole purpose of developing Open Rails in the first place!
ADDITIONAL:
If only .dds files were in the product... That would be Open Rails ONLY Designed Content.
If only .ace files were in the product... It would be able to be used in Both SIM Engines.
Including .dds textures does not change the file format nor make content that uses these textures incompatible with MSTS. If a model was distributed with just a .dds texture and did not include an .ace file then that shape should not be loaded just as any model missing textures would not be loaded. I will check what Open Rails does in this situation.
The oldest version of Open Rails on my computer is dated 12/04/2009.
There are no models written just for Open Rails because it uses the same file formats and content creation tools as MSTS content. To avoid fragmenting the market for content Open Rails needs to reject any content not compatible with MSTS until after version 1.0 and additional file formats are supported.
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