Do I need MSTS to run OR ??

[jimanthony]

I have a new computer tower(windows7) that's more than capable of running OR or MSTS.

Do I need to install MSTS to run OR ??

Will my add-ons from MLT, etc run on OR without MSTS ??

Any help as I prefer MSTS to Aurun and Train Simulator.

[ckawahara]

Check out the OR web site. There is a faq that has your answers. You need parts of the install but IR run independently of MSTS and no connection to it.

[R. Steele]

ORTS does not use or need the MSTS exe files or MSTSBin. That being said you need the MSTS file structure in place to run all the legacy MSTS content using ORTS. There is a file structure specific to ORTS to run routes/trains/content without using MSTS - that information is found on the ORTS website. Best to stick to the MSTS file structure at this point in time.

Whew, so that being said,
Go to the Steam4Me web http://msts.steam4me.net/tutorials/i...g_msts_w7.html and follow the instructions for setting up MSTS under WIN7.
DO NOT install MSTS in the Program Files (86) folder, this will cause problems. You can pretty much install it where it makes sense for you. I have my default install of (from the msts CD set) here >>> C:\1TS - works fine. It's at the top of the folder heirarchy and is easy to type and remember.
The downside is that most train sim installs still point to the old MSTS locations, so you will have to manually change that when you install equipment, routes, etc. Not a big deal.
I have stuff from MLT, SLI, DW, BLW, etc. and all run excellent in OR.
Also, everything runs using MSTS, if so needed, although I have not used it in over a year (exception for editors)
I have installed basic MSTS plus Bin and all the mods required as specified at Steam4ME
I only keep train.exe, the other executables are dispensed with. Make toolset shortcuts from train.exe using the command line parameters available.
Screenshots of my default MSTS install and the location of all the "mini-route" (each containing several routes) installs in C:\2TS


bandicam 2014-12-11 15-40-21-821.jpgbandicam 2014-12-11 15-40-58-722.jpg

[OTTODAD]

Once more and for the last tine, I hope, MSTS must be installed on a computer using ORTS so that the MSTS Activities and Route Editors can be used until ORTS has its own.

The Route Riter and Conbuilder also need the MSTS Train.exe to be present for them to work !

[eric]

And to clarify Otto's quite declarative statement, for what I also hope is the last time, you only need MSTS *if* you plan to use the Activity Editor or Route Editor.

For the (what I'm guessing is) 90% of the world who never creates an activity on their own, or the 98% who never edit a route, you do not need to install MSTS to enjoy ORTS.

Since you can create consists with other utilities, and ORTS has its own path editor, the % of people who "need" MSTS installed is a very small and shrinking minority.

[MCDemuth]

That being said you need the MSTS file structure in place to run all the legacy MSTS content using ORTS.

You guys need to be more clear on what you mean by "File Structure".

I think what you mean is the Folder and SubFolder Structure or what we use to call the "Directory Tree". Using the word FILE in there makes things too confusing, since people think they need FILES. Folder Structure make more sense...

The Open Rails installation program should be able to create it OWN Folders, and SubFolders that are structured like how they were done for MSTS. Why they would need MSTS to do that for them...is a Mystery. If not, the design team should fix that.

I am a little confused by your comments about different folder structures among the sims.



This is directly from the FAQ on their Website:

"Do I need MSTS to run Open Rails?"

"No. However Open Rails does not yet have a route editor or an activity editor, so you cannot build your own routes and activities."



Running LEGACY Content? Not sure what you mean by "Legacy"

Totally lost me on that one...

The Open Rails FAQ constantly references being able to use MSTS Content, and specifically Says "NO", you do not need MSTS to run Open Rails.

Doesn't say ANYTHING about needing MSTS "Structure" to run products designed for MSTS.

I have purchased some SLI products which now "support" Open Rails. When I installed them, I was not asked if I wanted to install them into Open Rails, only MSTS. There were some files that were DDS Files that only Open Rails uses. However, they were all installed into the same FOLDER Structure....

[MCDemuth]

Once more and for the last tine, I hope, MSTS must be installed on a computer using ORTS so that the MSTS Activities and Route Editors can be used until ORTS has its own.

Otto,

Sorry for the delay, I will still typing my last response when you posted this...

I know about the MSTS Activities and Route Editors being needed. Most of us do...



But there is still a ton of confusion otherwise...

Structure, and Legacy Content?

This has nothing to do with the MSTS Activities and Route Editors...



Not sure where this is coming from, but when the Open Rails FAQ does not mention anything about "Structure" and "Legacy Content", members need to make it clear that these things are Optional only, if they even know what they are talking about.



I always thought the term "Legacy" was used to describe Older Software that can only be used on older computers with older Operating Software...Since newer operatings systems are not compatible with the older software. Much like how MSTS has difficulty running on computers with Windows 8. MSTS Content (Locomotives, Rollingstock, Routes) is not "Legacy", since Open Rails can run it, so why would you still need MSTS to use it?

[OTTODAD]

And to clarify Otto's quite declarative statement, for what I also hope is the last time, you only need MSTS *if* you plan to use the Activity Editor or Route Editor.

But before ORTS can use MSTS content it must have been installed from its CDs !

It that clear ?

[jimanthony]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thanks for your responses.

I'll give them a go,

[R. Steele]

You guys need to be more clear on what you mean by "File Structure".

I goofed in typing, I meant "Folder" as the the structure of folders MSTS uses. It was unclear and I never corrected it.

And...there is documented a separate folder structure for use when MSTS is absent. That is documented on the web site.

I have some routes and equipment set up and running employing that specific folder structure and OR uses it.

By legacy: I thought it was becoming more common to refer to older content that was being used by current programs and applications. (content meaning: equipment, routes, models, data file (.dat) and other associated files necessary for the running of same)
As applies to ORTS: the ability to use and be compatible with the older content of MSTS. Legacy has such a nice feel to it, sort of pays credit to the large amount of wonderful models, equipment, and routes initially designed specifically for MSTS but now useful to the newer ORTS ..... as apart from content specifically designed for OR.

Sorry for the confusion. Did not mean to obfuscate, just trying to help, as people helped me.

And fellows, no matter how many times you post this material someone will ask once again. It's the nature of how "two legged critters" learn. A little patience with newcomers to the hobby you so dearly love will only serve to welcome and encourage more to enjoy it.

[R. Steele]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thanks for your responses.

I'll give them a go,

Speaking for myself, You're Welcome. Enjoy.

[baldwin]

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The Route Riter and Conbuilder also need the MSTS Train.exe to be present for them to work !
[/COLOR]

Conbuilder only needs the Consists and Trainset folder. Route Riter only needs Shapes, Textures, Route, Consist and Trainset. Neither needs Train.exe to be present.

[dredick]

By legacy: I thought it was becoming more common to refer to older content that was being used by current programs and applications. (content meaning: equipment, routes, models, data file (.dat) and other associated files necessary for the running of same).

That is exactly how FSX terms FS9 aircraft that are copied over to FSX without editing the aircraft.cfg file to add a "ui_typerole=" line. Without that line, FSX lists the aircraft as "Legacy" (especially in regards to FS9 default aircraft which are copied over to FSX), which is exactly as you describe above.

[eric]

But before ORTS can use MSTS content it must have been installed from its CDs !

It that clear ?

It's clear, but it's patently false.

My son's PC has no CD drive, so there's no way MSTS could have been installed.

OpenRails just fine, including some payware routes designed for MSTS.


Again, don't over-complicate the issue or confuse people by making blanket statements...

ORTS does not require someone to own MSTS.

ORTS does not require someone to install MSTS.

If you want to use a route that still uses legacy Kuju content, then you need to install the content, but you don't need the program executables or registry settings.

If you want to use the Kuju editors and tools, you'll need the executables.

[crstagg]

.................
Conbuilder also need the MSTS Train.exe to be present for them to work !

That is not correct. ConBuilder only needs to be pointed to the Root folder of the installation, the one where MSTS installer places Train.exe. However the program MSTS Manager that comes with ConBuilder needs Train.exe to be present for its auto-search function to find all MSTS/ORTS data installs. But it also can be manually pointed to each of those root folders of the mini-installs.