OR F5 Menu Crash

[peaches461999]

Just did an update today to latest developer release. I've noticed that when I toggle through the F5 screens, when it cycles to the screen that shows all the performance graphs such as vid and sound graphs, OR freezes. Complete lock up. When I hit the ESC key, it immediately returns to the OR menu screen. This crash it not developing a report or anything. I've tried a few different routes thinking maybe something wrong with route, but I get same result in all routes I've tried it in. This event is new with this current release.

[baldwin]

The developer issue of OR is actually the last experimental release for that week. Experimentals come out mainly daily, sometimes two or three in a day and sometimes several days between them. It may well be that the last experimental , now developers, contains a bug that has been fixed in a later release.

I am running X2618 and am unable to replicate your problem.

[OTTODAD]

Similar here using X.2604, but after crashing out using SHIFT-F5 repeatedly it shows this below.

Here is its Zipped ORTS Log.txt file.

OpenRailsLog.zip

Also does the same testing other routes activities.

[Frisky57]

Similar here using X.2604, but after crashing out using SHIFT-F5 repeatedly it shows this below.

Here is its Zipped ORTS Log.txt file.

[ATTACH]64888[/ATTACH]

Also does the same testing other routes activities.

Otto, see here for a possible solution:
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...rash-in-x2533/
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/ind...-extended-hud/

[OTTODAD]

Otto, see here for a possible solution:

http://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25173-net-crash-in-x2533/
http://www.elvastower.com/forums/index.php?/topic/25253-x2585-crash-when-switching-extended-hud/

Thanks, but is not helpful and should be dealt with by ORTS, eliminating what triggers it in the program's code !

As forinstanance improving all this below, which is not possible by doing it manually, modifiying MSTS files used by ORTS !

Emergency brakes being applied when running short paths Freestyle activities, not having to use convoluted "Manual" mode which is not always working !
No Kosmos environments and irregular water top reflections, video showing MSTS Kosmos first and then ORTS.
http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/rhine-water.wmv
No #1 Locos Rear Cab views in locos that have them and consists with such "flipped" locos at the other end.
F9 train operations view not working like in MSTSBin, not being able to see #5 passenger views of individual carriages that have them and can not #1 view cabs in other locos in consists that have them.
Slow movement of Train Brakes levers when releasing train brakes.
Slow acceleration and speed of some trains.
Some Terrain flicker.
No #7 Yard Camera.
No sound from driving over switches sound sources, etc, etc.

Sorry to mention all that again but I am missing it in ORTS.

[R. Steele]

Dear Otto, sorry you are having problems with OR, let's try to sort it out.

"Thanks, but is not helpful and should be dealt with by ORTS, eliminating what triggers it in the program's code!"
This will take someone who is really knowledgeable about Operating Systems to accurately explain. Performance counters appear to be an intregal part of a OS and it is the users responsibility to maintain their system. You will have to fix these. OR cannot and I suppose the data needs to be collected to help advance the program. It looks daunting and probably is, I certainly would not relish doing it! Someone may be willing to help.

"Emergency brakes being applied when running short paths Freestyle activities, not having to use convoluted "Manual" mode which is not always working!"

Running in manual is quite straightforward, change to manual mode and run. Although, as in real operations, you will have to throw your own switches (or align them for a longer path using the Dispatch Window - another step - I admit)

I have never gotten emergency braking in manual mode when I throw my switches, believe me in real world ops if you ran over a switch, you would get a reaction.

Nothing convoluted about it, quite straightforward, switch to manual, throw switches (using G and Shift+G) tab through signals if needed and you are on your way. (If you know how to use the Dispatch Window you can become your own Dispatch -- aligning switches and controlling signals for an entire path length.) I just ran the AndersonDay Activity in PON11 entirely in manual mode.

"No Kosmos environments and irregular water top reflections, video showing MSTS Kosmos first and then ORTS.
http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/rhine-water.wmv"

Quite right, I will welcome the day when the environment is totally workable. The Volunteer OR development team is working on it. They too, would like to have it finished, but this does take time and effort from volunteers.
Having Kosmos would be so cool - I did not play with it much in MSTS but from what I saw and read - man that will be wonderful when it is fully implemented.

"No #1 Locos Rear Cab views in locos that have them and consists with such "flipped" locos at the other end."

I hope I'm not interpreting this incorrectly, but I'll give it a whirl. I am able in OR by repeatedly using the "5" camera key to cycle through all views available in the consist I am using. That includes, BLW/ZT virtual cabviews, all operating passenger views, views in the caboose. The key word is operating. OR cannot fix inop views, they just will not be available.

By stopping the train, in neutral, I can change from one engine cab to another. This includes all engines with operating cabviews in a consist that are coupled together. AFAIK you still have to couple to another engine to enter the cab ---- there is an ongoing discussion about implementing a way to change engines without having to couple.

You can view any train on the route, jumping around using the "9" key. I remember reading something about jumping into the cab of another train...cannot remember where that is. (do not know if it is implemented or will be)

The only train sim I know of that you can walk up to an engine and board is RUN8 - I do not believe MSTS or MSTSBin had that feature (you would certainly know more about this than I)

"F9 train operations view not working like in MSTSBin,"

Please excuse my ignorance, do not understand this. Not enough experience with MSTS ---- what specifically are you able to do?

In OR I can couple/uncouple; toggle handbrake, toggle Power; toggle MU connection; - all viewing is handled by the camera key functions (which frankly are way advanced over MSTSBin - the things you can do with the cameras in OR are really flexible and quite wonderful)

"Slow movement of Train Brakes levers when releasing train brakes.
Slow acceleration and speed of some trains.
Some Terrain flicker."

Ya got me there, some I have experience, others not so much. From what I gather some of it is just plain sloppy, poor adherence to engine physics in the eng files and incomplete implementing on the msts coding. Changing the engine files helps quite a lot. Some is also improvements still being made in the OR code, trying to make the performance more prototypical (is a word thrown about quite a bit) "real-world" in another sense. Nothing wrong with that. Making operations real regarding friction, braking, acceleration is a worthy goal and takes time to implement as correctly as modern coding allows. That I beleive is a worth goal.

Terrain Flicker - Gee at my age I get that a lot too. Seriously, way beyond my knowledge, not being a route creator, a combination of things, some of which OR has no control over. I see it too, more so in MSTS, less so with a modern graphics card tuned to my system and running OR.

"No #7 Yard Camera."
..... This was one of my first suggestions... not needed at all ---- Camera 8 is a free roam camera (with a view saving feature) that can provide any type of view, focal length, distance you can conjure up.

You can have yard views, orbital views, satelite views, track side views, views from inside buildings, on jettys, sitting on the wing of a Cessna watching the trains below - that will blow your hair back, loading docks watching the trains go by.... just so many more views than were ever possible in MSTS - it really is quite flexible. Something you gotta learn how to do, you will love it!

"No sound from driving over switches sound sources, etc, etc."

That is really dependent on the route, your sound files, and other sound factors. On some routes I get phenomenal sound from going over switches, points, junctions, etc. Other Routes are quite quiet, so I know it is not all in OR. The development team has done a wonderful job of improving the sound. I also took it upon myself to check ALL my sound files, update and install new sounds wherever possible (there's a whole lot of new stuff out there) and the improvement is quite noticeable in OR. Again just depends on how much "hobby time" one wants to devote to sound issues. OR does use them when present.

Geeze, that about empties the boiler. Hope some of this blather was helpful.

This is quite an experience, being close to the starting point of something like OR. Having a modern sim platform capable of taking advantage of contemporary software and hardware advancements and also able to make good use of the quite wonderful and abundantly varied legacy routes and models (equipment and otherwise) of MSTS. WOW what fun.

(please excuse typos, mis-spellings, and grammar, typed this too fast!)
Cheers

[OTTODAD]

In MSTSBin I can see the #5 passenger views of cars that have one by highlighting cars when the F9 view is displayed:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/f9-5-passenger-views.wmv

In locos I use it to show an overhead view of what moving player train sees, shown below.

Everything else I have mentioned in my post will have to wait for further improvements of ORTS.

In the meantime will continue to enjoy running my DB-Tracks routes in MSTSBin and TS-2015, which like Trainz lets me run any driveable loco / consist in a Freeroam scenario, having total control of where and when AIs can run as well as the selected player train, pathing the latter either in advance using its Scenario Editor 2D-Map or at the time of running it.

As for the quality of graphics, apart from distant scenery, TS-2015 has some of the best, likely to get better once they start using the Unreal-4 Graphics Engine next year !

But every Train Simulator has something which is better tban what others have, like ORTS displaying distant scenery and this night scenes below !

[R. Steele]

Hi Otto,
I watched the video you posted, very instructive. I did not know MSTS did that. (note: whenever I write "MSTS or msts" please just take it to mean "MSTSBin"). I tried it out, nifty.
Certainly does not work that way in OR.

In MSTS you first open the "Train Ops Window (F9) then mouse to the coach/wagon you want, click on it with the mouse and get the view. Works fine, straightforward enough.

In OR the user would start off in the Cabview (#1) and by repeatedly pressing Key #5 simply cycle through all the views you were able to activitate by using less steps. All the intermediate steps have been dispensed with in OR. That to me is simpler and more direct way to access a view within a passenger coach.

There is a drawback in the OR approach. You cannot tell which coach/wagon you are viewing from. They are being cycled through in order starting with the first in the consist to the last. In MSTS you know where you are, because you can see where the order the coaches are in - F9 window shows that.

Will that be changed in OR? Of course, I cannot speak for the dev team, however, I suspect that it will not. It just seems that they would not choose to add more steps to make a function "exactly like" it is in MSTS. A compatible function is now quickly achieved in OR with less steps. (at this point, folks that know me well would say..."but what do you know? My reply is usually... Not Much!)

If this is something you would like to see added, make a suggestion. Who knows? I have made many suggestions, but I'm always aware that some of them are not a priority, there are many pressing issues that need attention, the dev team has to triage these items.

I agree with what you wrote "But every Train Simulator has something which is better tban what others have,..."
(couple of beautiful night screenshots, also - what route?)

A thought comes to mind... there is a rich selection of train simulator platforms avaialable to people that love the hobby. Something for everyone. MSTS will always have the distinction of being the first (were there any good ones before MSTS?), but someone just starting out now sure does have quite a selection to choose from.

Cheers,