Underpowered Locos

[ossie]

Hi all. I've come across an issue with a couple of locos that has me stumped. Basically, the locos appear to lack power in OR (but not MSTS) and getting them to run, even as a light engine, takes way more power than it should and top speed at 100% power is +/- 30 kmph.

Prior to posting, I searched back through 6 or 7 pages here to see if I could find anything similar. This one was the closest I found:

https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/showthread.php?319275-Underpowered-Power

and OTTODAD in particular seems to be describing something similar, although (again) I'm experiencing it trying to run a light engine and with a consist on can't get these locos to budge at all. I've tried the latest experimental version, v 09 & 1.0 & all are doing the same thing.

This is one of the locos I've encountered the issue with:

https://www.trainsim.com/vbts/tslib.php?searchid=3949080

The majority of the locos I've tried since noticing it have been fine, but why it's happening with the couple I've found so far has me stumped. Any suggestions would be much appreciated please.

Thanks
Peter

[baldwin]

Check the MaxPower line in the eng file. Make sure it is using kW and not kN

[ossie]

Thanks Baldwin! Eng file says:

Wagon ( Au_t411 )
Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 1875hp )
MaxForce ( 1169kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 1150kN )
MaxVelocity ( 170mph )
MaxCurrent ( 1900A )
WheelRadius ( 20in )
comment( sanding system is switched off when faster than given velocity )
Sanding ( 1e9mph )

I changed hp to kW and got another 10 km/h, then added 1000 more Kw's and got it to approx 60 km/h, 3875 kW got me to about 80 km/h, so I guess I could just keep adding to the kW's until it pulls a consist normally. Just wondering if any of those other figures (force, velocity etc) jump out as incorrect to you though?

Happy to use my work around if needed, but if changing any of the others might get it operating normally, that'd be great.

Thanks!

[baldwin]

The T class eng file as supplied has
Wagon ( Au_t357 )
Type ( Diesel )
MaxPower ( 875hp )
MaxForce ( 169kN )
MaxContinuousForce ( 150kN )
MaxVelocity ( 70mph )

This means it is not a fast high powered engine. Change MaxPower ( 875hp ) to MaxPower ( 653kW ) and you will have a correctly powered engine that will move normally.

These were built with 8 cylinder EMD motors. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_567 for nominal power ratings.

[ossie]

That's fantastic Baldwin, thanks very much!

[neyland]

This problem has been resolved in the later experimental versions.

[OTTODAD]

Yes, some locos are now starting to run more realistically, but not the default Acela forinstance.

ORTS train brakes however are stiill too slow releasing and the train brakes levers can not be moved to their Zero positions in one swift move, which I image is the case in real locos, releasing their train brakes as quickly as possible, depending on the length of the train, to allow its driver/engineer to get it rolling ASAP !

The first part of this video shows a single GP38's train brakes being released by ORTS and the second part shows the action in MSTS:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/train-brakes-gp38.wmv

[crstagg]

Yes, some locos are now starting to run more realistically, but not the default Acela forinstance.

ORTS train brakes however are stiill too slow releasing and the train brakes levers can not be moved to their Zero positions in one swift move, which I image is the case in real locos, releasing their train brakes as quickly as possible, depending on the length of the train, to allow its driver/engineer to get it rolling ASAP !

The first part of this video shows a single GP38's train brakes being released by ORTS and the second part shows the action in MSTS:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/train-brakes-gp38.wmv

Otto,
Have you tried this? Move Trainbrake lever to Zero position with ; key then Initialize all brakes with Shift plus / key. Then you can apply power and begin to move. Just takes a few seconds.

Works for me. With one GP39-2 and 25 wagons from first press of ; key to movement in 16 seconds.

[OTTODAD]

Thanks Charles, yes that helps, especially with the Acela HHP-8 trainset !

But it is the many stops the train brakes lever makes being moved to Zero which are slowing it down, holding down the ; key, being caused by the repeat key-press function it uses.

The Acela-HHP is also sluggish starting, wheel-slip at 12% ?, compared with the ICE-3 !

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/train-brakes-acela-hhp-ice3.wmv

[crstagg]

Thanks Charles, yes that helps, especially with the Acela HHP-8 trainset !

But it is the many stops the train brakes lever makes being moved to Zero which are slowing it down, holding down the ; key, being caused by the repeat key-press function it uses.

The Acela-HHP is also sluggish starting, wheel-slip at 12% ?, compared with the ICE-3 !

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/t...a-hhp-ice3.wmv

"being caused by the repeat key-press function it uses." ??? I just press and hold the ; till it gets all the way.

Wheel slip is because in the Acela you are sitting on the right side of the engine causing the chassis to tilt thus raising the wheels on the left side slightly off the rail. Where as in the ICE you are sitting in the middle and not tilting the chassis thus getting good traction on both rails. ;-)

[crstagg]

Thanks Charles, yes that helps, especially with the Acela HHP-8 trainset !

But it is the many stops the train brakes lever makes being moved to Zero which are slowing it down, holding down the ; key, being caused by the repeat key-press function it uses.

The Acela-HHP is also sluggish starting, wheel-slip at 12% ?, compared with the ICE-3 !

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/train-brakes-acela-hhp-ice3.wmv

Watched your video and noticed a couple of things:
- Different notches for the power. One notch for the ICE provides more power than one notch to the Acela.
- The starting location for the ICE must be on a downhill slope as half of the consist is pushing where as ALL of the Acela consist is being Pulled.

[OTTODAD]

The starting location for the ICE must be on a downhill slope as half of the consist is pushing where as ALL of the Acela consist is being Pulled.

Both passenger trains are of similar length and weight, starting inside mainline stations at Cologne and Philadelphia !

[OTTODAD]

The reason why an ICE-3 is faster when starting one and is generally running faster than an ACELA is that it has traction motors in all its carriages bogeys, whereas an Acela has them only in their locos at either end.

I am no expert on coding MSTS *.eng files so that the MSTS ICE-3 power cars allow for the higher power a real whole consist of one has in all its carriages, which they seem to also have in ORTS !

[crstagg]

The reason why an ICE-3 is faster when starting one and is generally running faster than an ACELA is that it has traction motors in all its carriages bogeys, whereas an Acela has them only in their locos at either end.

I am no expert on coding MSTS *.eng files so that the MSTS ICE-3 power cars allow for the higher power a real whole consist of one has in all its carriages, which they seem to also have in ORTS !

Then the ICE is a consist of all ENGs and no WAGs (or Carriages). No wonder it accelerates faster.

[OTTODAD]

Then the ICE is a consist of all ENGs and no WAGs (or Carriages). No wonder it accelerates faster.

A real one is but not a MSTSBin / ORTS version:

Train (
    TrainCfg ( "DB ICE3 403"
        Name ( "DB ICE-3 Single 6.2m" )        
        MaxVelocity ( 40.00000 1.00000 )
        NextWagonUID ( 9 )
        Durability ( 1.00000 )
        Engine (
            UiD ( 1 )
            EngineData ( ICE3_403_0 STP_DB_403 )
        )
        Wagon (
            WagonData ( ICE3_403_1 STP_DB_403 )
            UiD ( 2 )
        )
        Engine (
            UiD ( 3 )
            EngineData ( ICE3_403_2 STP_DB_403 )
        )
        Wagon (
            WagonData ( ICE3_403_3_Bistro STP_DB_403 )
            UiD ( 4 )
        )
        Wagon (
            WagonData ( ICE3_403_8 STP_DB_403 )
            UiD ( 5 )
        )
        Engine (
            UiD ( 6 )
            EngineData ( ICE3_403_7 STP_DB_403 )
        )
        Wagon (
            WagonData ( ICE3_403_6 STP_DB_403 )
            UiD ( 7 )
        )
        Engine (
                Flip ( )
            UiD ( 8 )
            EngineData ( ICE3_403_0 STP_DB_403 )
        )
    )
)