X.1916 Problem

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  • OTTODAD
    1
    • Feb 2001
    • 32344
    • England
    • General

    #1

    X.1916 Problem

    After installing the latest X.1916 all my locos apply Emergency brakes after running a short distance.

    Has anybody else got this problem before I report it to Bugs at Launchpad.
  • nicober
    Member
    • May 2010
    • 39
    • Quebec - Canada

    #2
    Hi Otto !

    For me with this latest version X-1916, no problem with emergency brakes in explore mode.

    In activity mode the emergency brakes are applied when I run my train and overpass the end of the path close the next switch in front of me. Naturelly samething if I overpass a red signal. I tested it in X-1916 - X-1880 and 0.9 official version with the same effects. I think many activities was made with a short path, in MSTS you can run your train after you overpass the end of a path player. But in OR it seems it's not possible in automatic mode. You need to switch in manual mode ( CRTL + M ) to remove emergency brakes and stay in this mode if you want to continue your route.

    Cheers!

    Comment

    • OTTODAD
      1
      • Feb 2001
      • 32344
      • England
      • General

      #3
      Thanks for the feedback, Nick !

      Yes, no problems in Explore mode but there are when running activities.

      Part-1 shows my Dash-9 running in Explore mode and part-2 starting in its Otto-Yard activity:
      http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/orts-emergency-brakes.wmv
      Alt-Enter to view Full-Screen.

      Having electrified my Gold-Spike-X route and hidden its overhead wire below the terrain so that I can run all trains in it, all MSTS locoe apply Emergency brakes as shown below and shall report it to their Launchpad.

      Comment

      • eolesen
        9500 Post Veteran and Administrator



        • Dec 2002
        • 9583
        • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
        • English, SQL
        • General

        #4
        Otto, before you report a bug, check the path lengths as Nick suggested.

        If you over-run a path in Activity mode, you're considered an uncontrollable train and will be thrown into emergency. That's not a bug. It's working per design, and has been discussed both here and on ET before.


        I had a number of activities I use for photo shoots (yards filled, other trains posed in various places), and had to modify those to have more complete paths than what I'd started with under MSTS.
        If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

        Comment

        • Komachi
          1500 Post Veteran
          • Oct 2006
          • 1707
          • Lancaster, Pennsylvania

          #5
          Depends on the route actually. I have E-brake problems on the PRR Eastern here and there in explore.

          Comment

          • OTTODAD
            1
            • Feb 2001
            • 32344
            • England
            • General

            #6
            Originally posted by eric
            Otto, before you report a bug, check the path lengths as Nick suggested.
            "In activity mode the emergency brakes are applied when I run my train and overpass the end of the path close the next switch in front of me."

            Had a look into that activity and yes, it's path ends just before emergency brakes were applied and that is totally useless for me as all of my activities use short paths and are what Jim Ward (Sniper) called FREESTYLE activities, allowing loose consists to be placed everywhere, change to locos of loose consists trains to drive them, have many AIs running run on tracks not used by the player, like he did in his Port Ogden and Northern routes and give the player total FREEDOM of where he wants to go and do whatever.

            ORTS should not invent new rules that mess up some of what we have been doing in MSTSBin, making most of my activities useless for running in ORTS !

            Ah well, back to my MSTSBin DB-Tracks routes and TS-2014 !

            Comment

            • eolesen
              9500 Post Veteran and Administrator



              • Dec 2002
              • 9583
              • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
              • English, SQL
              • General

              #7
              I totally understand the concept of freestyle activities, Otto, but in the end, it's still not a bug.

              All you need to do to avoid this is change from activity mode over to manual mode (CTRL-M) before moving your train.

              This has been discussed multiple times since April 2013.

              And, for the record, I don't see this as ORTS inventing new rules. It's implementing real-world operational procedures.

              If your train leaves the path you're authorized for, you're considered out of control.

              When implemented in the US, PTC would simply do a service brake application when you leave your authority, not an emergency brake, but given that braking profiles aren't part of route design just yet, going into emergency is the next best thing.
              Last edited by eric; 01-06-2014, 18:45.
              If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

              Comment

              • roeter
                Senior Member
                • Nov 1999
                • 171
                • Netherlands.

                #8
                If you stop the train before it reaches the end of the path you can switch to Manual mode (control-M), and then you can go as you please - but you will have to clear the signals manually (using TAB) as you go along.

                Regards,
                Rob Roeterdink

                Comment

                • OTTODAD
                  1
                  • Feb 2001
                  • 32344
                  • England
                  • General

                  #9
                  Originally posted by roeter
                  If you stop the train before it reaches the end of the path you can switch to Manual mode (control-M), and then you can go as you please - but you will have to clear the signals manually (using TAB) as you go along.
                  That's no good !

                  I want to enjoy the scenery and not having to watch out for approaching RED signals in the F4 window, I usually do not use, intruding into the view !

                  I'll stick with MSTSBin, which also shows my KOSMOS environments !

                  Comment

                  • OTTODAD
                    1
                    • Feb 2001
                    • 32344
                    • England
                    • General

                    #10
                    All my MSTSBin routes have had their Automatic switches converted to Manual, as have all their signals been set to Permissive, to give the player in all my activities total Freedom to do whatever he wants to do !

                    That being the case had one more go using the ORTS Ctrl-M Manual mode and below is what happened.

                    Will check now and then to see whether these unnecessary short paths emergency applications have been removed, the still too slow train brakes release has been improved, Kosmos environments are being displayed and sounds of my going over points sound sources can be made audible the same are others which can be heard !






                    .

                    Comment

                    • baldwin
                      6000 Post Veteran


                      • Nov 1999
                      • 6358
                      • Chippenham, Wiltshire, UK.
                      • ORTS

                      #11
                      I am not sure where the problem lies there. I have a test route that has an outer loop and two inner loops, all linked together via switches and no signals.

                      In explore mode I can select a path between two points, say station A and station B each on a straight leg off of the outer loop. Between these two stations there is a switch which allows continuous running round the outer loop. I start at station A on the path to station B. Before I get to station B I change the switch to the loop without stopping and thus am going off path. When I actually do go off path there is no braking, or any message that I am off path. At no time am I in manual mode either.
                      Beer is not a matter of life or death, it is much more serious than that.

                      Comment

                      • OTTODAD
                        1
                        • Feb 2001
                        • 32344
                        • England
                        • General

                        #12
                        Hi Baldwin !

                        We shall have to let the ORTS team look into that.

                        Can somebody create an activity which has a short path ending in front of the player and then test run it with and without applying Ctrl-M ?

                        If whoever gets the same I did we shall have to let the ORTS team look into that.

                        Comment

                        • eolesen
                          9500 Post Veteran and Administrator



                          • Dec 2002
                          • 9583
                          • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
                          • English, SQL
                          • General

                          #13
                          Baldwin said he was in Explore mode. "Out of control" mode only applies to Activities.

                          There's a lengthy write-up of how the signaling works in the manual. You might want to consider reading pages 58 thru 62 on the signalling logic.
                          If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

                          Comment

                          • OTTODAD
                            1
                            • Feb 2001
                            • 32344
                            • England
                            • General

                            #14
                            Originally posted by eric
                            There's a lengthy write-up of how the signaling works in the manual. You might want to consider reading pages 58 thru 62 on the signalling logic.
                            You did not read my posts properly, saying that all my routes do not use signalling, not required by my Freestyle activities, all having been set to PERMISSIVE.

                            In any case, signalling is murky in all the Train Simulators that I use and don't want to be bothered with it, if that is O.K. with you !

                            Comment

                            • eolesen
                              9500 Post Veteran and Administrator



                              • Dec 2002
                              • 9583
                              • NS MP245.4 CNO&TP South District
                              • English, SQL
                              • General

                              #15
                              As our friend Vince would say, RTFM...

                              The manual explains all of the problems you seem to be running into, and also explains some of the design considerations behind those decisions.

                              Whether you use signalling in your route or not, there's going to be some signaling logic will still be applied. All of my routes in development are un-signaled, yet I still have to follow the rules used by the game engine when running an activity.
                              If you like what you see here at Trainsim.com, be it the discussions and knowledge in the forums, or items available in our library, I hope you'll consider a paid membership to help support keeping the site operating.... Thanks!

                              Comment

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