Dynamic Brakes

[OTTODAD]

Testing this in my DB-Tracks copy of MSTSBin realised that the DASH-9s Dynamic Brakes did not work and took a while to find a diesel that has working ones, the NALW Turbine.

Here are 8 of them, their Dynamic brakes maintaining a steady descend speed down the Cajon Pass towards San Bernardino:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/nalw-turbine-dynamic.wmv
Alt-Enter to view Full-Screen.

ORTS showing that it has applied Dynamic Brakes appears not to be aware that they do not work in DASH-9 and other US diesels !

[OTTODAD]

The -KW on locomotive info HUD shows they're engaged.

Thanks, that's what I was looking for, but a further MSTS test showed that they are not working in the DASH-9 and other locos.

[OTTODAD]

And here it is now in ORTS, its Dynamic Brakes maintaining a lower speed on the descent form the Cajon Pass:

http://www.otto-wipfel.co.uk/video/nalw-turbine-dynamic-orts.wmv
Alt-Enter to view Full-Screen

[rdamurphy]

This is getting silly. The HUD displays a train weight of 8,666 tons. Checking an old timetable for the BNSF Cajon sub, max allowable speed would be between 20 to 25 mph. Not 50mph. Assuming 100 cars, you would have 86.6 TOB, which require 26 axles of Dynamic Braking, or, divided by 6, only 5 locomotives per timetable. Also, with a loaded bulk or intermodal train, 32 axles of Dynamic braking, or 4 6-axle locomotives and 2 4-axle locomotives cut in, would be the absolute limit (28 axles for non bulk...).

Even the HUD shows you're exceeding the track speed limit by 23.5 mph for the route.

And, please, seriously, let's not compare the real world or OpenRails to MSTS... And 100 cars is by no means a "monster train" by US standards.

So, to summarize, you're using 50% dynamics on 42 axles, 10 over the limit, with wheelslip, while exceeding the speed limit by 23.5 mph on the route and at least 28.5 mph in real life.

So, if you want to find out if OR works correctly, you need 6 locomotives, 4 six axle, and 2 four axle. All with operable extended range dynamics. You must not exceed 20 mph from MP 56.6 and MP 61.5 and 25 mph from there down to MP 78. And, BTW, the timetable also specifies that train brakes may be needed to control speed.

And, oh, BTW. Before you leave Barstow, make sure you stop by the Barstow Diesel Service to pick up your certification that the Dynamics function on all of your locomotives.

Dynamic brakes are designed to control heavy trains down steep grades, not to make sure they can fly down the hill at 50 mph.

Here is a Southern Railway training video on how to bring trains safely down one of the steepest grades in the US: Saluda.

Robert

[James Collins]

This is getting silly. The HUD displays a train weight of 8,666 tons. Checking an old timetable for the BNSF Cajon sub, max allowable speed would be between 20 to 25 mph. Not 50mph.

In fairness, it seems he was trying to replicate a runaway situation which would explain his higher than normal speeds?

So I have created an activity which runs my monster freight train down the Cajon Pass 4 towards Bernardino where a similar train, some of its brakes failing, derailed in the curve just before its station yard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Ber...train_disaster

[bprice]

Thanks for posting the video. That was interesting.

[rlkimbal]

I am running on Austin Yoder's East River route which models the NS(N&W) Radford Division from Bluefield to Walton, VA. I am headed east from Bluefield and setup the dynamic brake and go to B8 before releasing the train brake. The consist is:


ns-bnsfintermodal75.con

File Name: ns-bnsfintermodal75.con

Type: Freight, Diesel, Driveable

Locomotive Name: NS SD70M 2581

Contents:
NS SD70M 2581 (ns2581\ns2581.ENG)
NS9957_DASH9R_AI MLT hr (HR_NS9957_DASH9\NS9957_DASH9R_AI.ENG)
NS SD70M 2581 (ns2581\ns2581.ENG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat GCF 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_GCF53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat BNSF/Xtra 45's (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_bnsfxtra45s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Yellow 45' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_yellow45.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Yellow 45' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_yellow45.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Yellow 45' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_yellow45.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Yellow 45' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_yellow45.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Yellow 45' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_yellow45.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat 3 Roadway 28' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_roadway28s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat 3 Roadway 28' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_roadway28s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat 3 Roadway 28' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_roadway28s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat 3 Roadway 28' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_roadway28s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat 3 Roadway 28' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx1_roadway28s.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)
LLW 89' RTTX Flat Schneider 53' (LLW Intermodal 2\rttx2_schneider53.WAG)

[rlkimbal]

Gary Wolf, who worked for me in Operations Research at NS, produced this training video with the NS training department at McDonough, GA. I have ridden the Belmont coal train down Saluda many mornings. I. Ray Mauney who was System General Road Foreman of Engines on NS, is still living and enjoying his retirement. NS does not operate down Saluda now, although the rail is still in place.

[conrail1]

Gary Wolf, who worked for me in Operations Research at NS, produced this training video with the NS training department at McDonough, GA.

Interesting seeing that name pop up here, I worked for Gary and Warren Egan, do you also know Larry Guthrie? I just talked to good friend of Gary's and he did confirm that he was involved in the Saluda video, I don't remember any mention of it when I worked for him.

If you haven't already figured out trying to carry on a useful discussion about real world train handling physics or operations for that matter at this site is pretty much a exercise in futility.

You have a PM.

[rlkimbal]

Yes, I know Larry quite well. He and I worked on introducing radio trains on the N&W after the NS merger. We rode many Belews Creek coal trains together. Warren and I go back to the early days of the AAR TTD program and getting first TOS and then TOES implemented.

Interesting seeing that name pop up here, I worked for Gary and Warren Egan, do you also know Larry Guthrie? I just talked to good friend of Gary's and he did confirm that he was involved in the Saluda video, I don't remember any mention of it when I worked for him.

If you haven't already figured out trying to carry on a useful discussion about real world train handling physics or operations for that matter at this site is pretty much a exercise in futility.

You have a PM.

[rlkimbal]

I decided to try a different locomotive and train at the same locations. Here are the results.

[OTTODAD]

I decided to try a different locomotive and train at the same locations. Here are the results.

There is a problem with your attachments, no space between them !

[rdamurphy]

Interesting seeing that name pop up here, I worked for Gary and Warren Egan, do you also know Larry Guthrie? I just talked to good friend of Gary's and he did confirm that he was involved in the Saluda video, I don't remember any mention of it when I worked for him.

If you haven't already figured out trying to carry on a useful discussion about real world train handling physics or operations for that matter at this site is pretty much a exercise in futility.

You have a PM.

So, would you say my explanation was accurate, or nearly so?

Robert

[rlkimbal]

I'll try again

There is a problem with your attachments, no space between them !

[rlkimbal]

I was not trying to compare with real life. My original post was to compare MSTS vs OR in the simulation of dynamic brakes on the same train and route. In my latest attempt using SD60 locomotive with a loaded coal train, again on the East River route, I was going 9.6 mph with MSTS and 18.2 mph with OR. The difference may be in the modeling of extended range brakes that are most effective below 25 mph. I have been involved with simulation long enough (42 years) to know that any model is an approximation of real life and how the user uses the model can make a big difference in the outcome. My thanks to all who have worked to improve on the original KUJU effort.

Dick Kimball

So, would you say my explanation was accurate, or nearly so?

Robert