probably track configuration problem. On routes where i've tried, the track model remained the same, the only difference was, the rails had slightly different specularity on superelevated curves.
Only problem I have, is in the #5 view, well.... It looks a bit funky seeing the car turn and angle, but your view doesn't and the car sorta moves around with the vibration option, again without your view doing so; so the car is basically shaking around you, not with you.
.... It looks a bit funky seeing the car turn and angle, but your view doesn't and the car sorta moves around with the vibration option...
I actually think this is quite realistic - vibrations particularly are felt and heard rather than seen. Whilst travelling on a train the other day I was aware that on superelevation and car oscillation your brain and eye are still taking in the view you're concentrating on without the view apparently shaking. The window frame appears at the periphery of the view to move about but your point of view doesn't. If the shaking is so severe your vision blurs, then I think something bad is about to happen to your train. Think about driving on a rough road - you can still read an external sign clearly. That wonderful computer built into your head can compensate for most normal shaking applied to your body.
Em what I meant was, the car moves aroudn you, while the camera doesn't move witht he car... meaning your camera stays fixed, your position does. The car sorta sways around you, either moving you closer to the window, or the other seat... I"ll take a video sometime to explain better.
Yes, but as mentioned, equilibrium kicks in when there's a fixed object to reference... A camera wouldn't do that, but on an interior view, it's an eyeball view, not a camera...
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Look all I'm saying is ORTS is aiming for a better sim than MSTS... I've been on a train on a superelevated route, and that ain't how it works. When the train banks left, I don't stay independent of the car's movements and get forced into the next seat over. I Move with the train, my view 'fixed' to the seat. Not fixed in space with the car rolling around me. If you think what the sim is doing there is 'right', or 'accurate', then I beg to differ.
Komachi, you're right. And the same applies to view 1, where on superelevation the eyes should "incline" together with the train. But as far as I understand ORTS has only differed the solution of the problem (I think because it is not mathematically elementary).
I don't think the vibration thing is very realistic at all. Particularly at high speed on UK routes. But it is early days and a first viewing of the feature, so give the OR boys a chance i think.
Look all I'm saying is ORTS is aiming for a better sim than MSTS... I've been on a train on a superelevated route, and that ain't how it works. When the train banks left, I don't stay independent of the car's movements and get forced into the next seat over. I Move with the train, my view 'fixed' to the seat. Not fixed in space with the car rolling around me. If you think what the sim is doing there is 'right', or 'accurate', then I beg to differ.
Your experience is based on a combination of the combined senses recognizing the G-forces involved. When your feet are balanced/anchored, and the ear doesn't sense an angle change, your eyes compensate accordingly.
Go thru a super-elevated curve at a restricted speed, and you may actually slide towards the inside of the curve. Your vision will stay level, your ears will sense your body leaning, and your feet won't be anchored. I've been on a SNCF train doing a station stop in the middle of a superelevated curve. It was a little like being in a carnival fun-house where everything is slightly tilted...
Ride a roller coaster with your eyes closed, and it is a much different experience than with your eyes open. It's why my wife gets car sick when reading a book on a curvy or rolling road. It's why people an ear infection can induce vertigo.
So... back to the interior view... it's neither right or wrong. It's variable depending on the speed, which is why the current solution won't always be right.
At a low speed, the body will have conflicting inputs via the ear and eyes, and will favor what the visual is telling it.
At a higher speed, the ear and eye are in synch, and "eyes level" will favor what the ear is telling it.
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True, but the ORTS developer has three options:
- implementing the feature considering the "look and feel" of the passenger/train engineer when running through the curve at nominal speed
- implementing the feature considering that the passenger/train engineer has always a horizontal line connecting his eyes
- considering the different look and feel in relation to train speed when implementing the feature.
In my opinion the first one is the best solution. In solution three the 2D cab should be inclined when train is stopping on a curve.
... I've been on a train on a superelevated route, and that ain't how it works. .....
Correct.
A demonstration of this effect can be seen in the new in-car "gyro-camera" used in NASCAR telecasts (Fox?).
The camera stays in a vertical position to show the steepness of the banking as the car leans in the corner.
That is NOT how we (or the drivers!) view the world, thank God!
Bruce
IBM XT i386; 512Kb RAM; 5.25" FDD; 1.4Mb FDD; 5Mb HDD; VGA 256-colour graphics card; AdLib soundcard; DR DOS 6.0; Windows 3.0
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