Suggestion: DPU/Radio Control

[Train-a-Mania]

Most North American Class I railroads today use "fence" control for locomotives that are mid-train or rear-train. These can be controlled separately from the lead locomotives. For example, when cresting a hill, the front locomotives can be dynamic braking while the rear locomotives can still be pushing. Run 8 has this feature, and I find it is extremely useful.

One MSTS route that would benefit from this is the BHP route. When operating a heavy ore train, being able to control the helpers independently would greatly help control the slack action.

Could this be implemented in a future version of OR?

[lindsayts]

I asked about this some time back for the BHP Port Hedland to MAC route and the reply then was it was not presently on the todo list.
This route also needs to be able to give priority to the loaded trains, this actual happens on the real line, ie the loaded trains heading to the port are not stopped except for an emergency, as the loaded trains are VERY slow to get started once one is stopped.

[UP_4848_Thunder]

Another addition suggestion would be if it's possible to impliment to have EOT emergency brake applications (rear of train toggles emergency instead of head end) by adding Shift+Backspace.

[superheatedsteam]

DPU is definitely something that I would like to see implemented. The Pilbara ore cars had their brake application speed increased way beyond Bob Boudoin’s recommended values to overcome, not only MSTS abysmal airbrake code, but the inability to start a brake application independently in the mid train units that induces faster brake response. This in turn makes the current physics values work for 2 rake trains but adding or removing a rake substantially changes the resultant brake performance.

Lindsay. There is exception to stopping loaded trains. In days gone by the driver/s would take the train all the way from a mine site to port and vice versa. As I understand it, in more recent years, most loaded ore trains now stop at the departure signal at Garden and swop driver with an empty ore train returning to the mine sites. As Garden siding is on descending gradient the fuel expenditure in starting the loaded ore train is minimised.

[rdamurphy]

I would like to see not only DPU, but manned helpers. Where you can have a split screen with two cabs and control both seperate locomotives, or perhaps multi locos in MP mode.

It may not be on the todo list now, but hey, you never know!

Of course, right now, the emphasis is on getting everything working right before adding new features...

Robert

[seagoon]

There is exception to stopping loaded trains. In days gone by the driver/s would take the train all the way from a mine site to port and vice versa. As I understand it, in more recent years, most loaded ore trains now stop at the departure signal at Garden and swop driver with an empty ore train returning to the mine sites. As Garden siding is on descending gradient the fuel expenditure in starting the loaded ore train is minimised.

That's interesting, and I thank you for providing this information, because I'm dabbling in the creation of an Activity for this route.
The iron-ore lines of the Pilbara have long fascinated me (being the only location in Oz which utilises heavy North American locomotives), even to the extent that I authored the Robe iron-ore route for Trainz many years ago.

Are you the creator of the MSTS Pilbara route?

Bruce

[lindsayts]

DPU is definitely something that I would like to see implemented. The Pilbara ore cars had their brake application speed increased way beyond Bob Boudoin’s recommended values to overcome, not only MSTS abysmal airbrake code, but the inability to start a brake application independently in the mid train units that induces faster brake response. This in turn makes the current physics values work for 2 rake trains but adding or removing a rake substantially changes the resultant brake performance.

Lindsay. There is exception to stopping loaded trains. In days gone by the driver/s would take the train all the way from a mine site to port and vice versa. As I understand it, in more recent years, most loaded ore trains now stop at the departure signal at Garden and swop driver with an empty ore train returning to the mine sites. As Garden siding is on descending gradient the fuel expenditure in starting the loaded ore train is minimised.

Thats correct, theres a cab ride video on Youtube Showing this, but an ex driver from this line told me the loaded trains always get priority for all other instances. I found it takes something more than a quater of an hour to get a loaded train back up to speed.

Incidently, in the activity that takes aloaded train from MAC to Port Hedland with opposing traffic theres a path error for one of the AI trains causing a head on collision near the Wilson st bridge, Red Bank. The previous OR signalling code did not detect the situation most likely because the AI train was not created until the player train was in the particular section.

I do have the correction you posted to get around this problem, I actaully have toyed with the idea of continuing the line into the loader at Port Hedland just to complete the route, one can get the track config from the satelite photos plus some Youtube videos.

Just for a laugh I have done an activity for this route for an 104 car ore train pulled by a pair of 4000 class Big Boys. Calculations shows the steamers could actual get from the mine to the port without taking on water or fuel. Its interesting the difference from the diesels as the power put out by the big boys at speed is around twice the diesels but the TE is less, so they start slower but climb the grades at almost double the speed. You need two of the steamers as one can actual pull the train up the grades but has not enough TE to start the consist. This correctly reflects real life.

I have a friend who works up there driving an excavator on one of the track teams on one of the other lines, he says on the line the only up grade is near the mine. the train only has locos at the head of the train and they use pushers to get the train over the grade which detach and becone the head locos of the next train. He flys back home to Vic regularly, what a b-----d of a way to earn a buck............

Lindsay

[rdamurphy]

That's the old saying, a Steamer can pull more than she can start and a diesel can start more than she can pull. Can you imagine the incredible stress in those pistons when a steam locomotive is starting out? It's no wonder they were cast iron inches thick...

BTW, to prove your assertion, check this out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhgHrDbN4EU

What you're seeing there is a 1.55% grade.

Robert

[seagoon]

BTW, to prove your assertion, check this out:

Robert, what's the story behind that clip?
Was it a test (I'm assuming so, as I don't think double-stacks were in use back in "the day") and if so, when and, more interestingly, why??

Bruce

[rdamurphy]

Well, the urban legend is interesting. Steam locomotives have dismal braking, and can't exceed yard speed when they're light. So, they usually hook a few empty flat cars to pull along behind when they're moving across the system without their passenger cars. The steam crew would call the Trainmaster, and ask for some "flats" and they would take whatever was available.

Well, apparently, they called the Trainmaster in North Platte and requested some "flat cars" and the Trainmaster gave them some. Well, when they arrived at the track, found what was there, they called him back, and basically, the "Trainmonster" was a bit irate, since it was a priority intermodal and now he had to find power and call a crew. So, they checked the tonnage, it was wihin 3985's rating, and the rest is history... 3985 also helped a stalled intermodal on that same hill into Cheyenne, after a couple of "inherited" SP units failed. (SP would always tack on a couple of extra units, so there would be enough running when it got there to pull the train...)

So, apparently, at the time, there was some debate as to whether or not it was worth keeping the Steam program among Senior Management, and they suddenly realized this could be a great way to promote the railroad. Eventually, the 3985 pulled "inaugaral" intermodal runs out of Texas and on Cajon Pass for different carriers, including American President Lines. So, it could have easily been a photo op, or one of those inaugaral trains. I like the urban legend better, though.

Check out the Youtube video of 844 and the Circus Train.

Robert

[superheatedsteam]

Are you the creator of the MSTS Pilbara route?

Hi Bruce,

Yes. It was me.

[seagoon]

Hi Bruce,

Yes. It was me.

A bloody good job, Marek.

I read the included pdf info document and, having toiled away on the Trainz effort, I can appreciate your comment(s) regarding populating the terrain with spinifex!!
That was the most tedious part for me and doing so in the Trainz editor was a damn sight easier than the MSTS equivalent.

Thanks for creating this for MSTS.

Bruce

[seagoon]

Well, the urban legend is interesting. ..............

Check out the Youtube video of 844 and the Circus Train.

Robert

Thanks, Robert.
That's interesting and, of course, makes it perfectly "legitimate" to run a container train with a Challenger in a train-sim.

Bruce

[superheatedsteam]

I actaully have toyed with the idea of continuing the line into the loader at Port Hedland just to complete the route, one can get the track config from the satelite photos plus some Youtube videos.

I did consider including Nelson Point but the amount of 3D modelling required to do this would have added a considerable amount of time to the project. If you do decide to build this area, let me know as I have built the Loco Overhaul Shop and have other partially completed buildings and a stacker.

I suppose some people would enjoy yard work like attaching compressor cars to the end of a rake and re-assembling empty trains, but for me, it’s not as interesting as driving from MAC to Yandi Junction which is the technically the most demanding part of the route. The undulating profile from MAC to Yandi Junction and crossing the Chichester Ranges is where the DPU units are mostly out of sync with the head end power.

I read an article in a railway magazine by an ex Mt Newman driver on how the Locotrol trains were operated on this line during the 90’s. I presume the principles still apply today. The mid-train units are remote controlled to not only pull all the ore cars behind them, but to also push 5-10 ore cars in front of them. This causes the couplers at this point in front of the DP units to be neither in tension or compression and is called the ‘node’. The driver has to keep this node just in front of the DP units and not let it move ‘behind’ [sic] the DPU units as the increased strain could cause coupler failure. This requires through route/track profile knowledge and skill by the driver.

As I understand it, Pilbara Rail also use DPU on some of their trains. These are connected to the rear of the train and disengage at the top of the climb out of some/one of the mine sites. If I recall correctly, I read these are now unmanned remote units that disengage at the top of the climb and then automatically return back to the mine site where they are connected to the rear of the next train.

[rdamurphy]

Nice Route, just spent a little time playing around with it. I have one question though, the empty trains seem way too heavy for two locomotives on the front end. The couplers would disintegrate before the train started moving...

Robert